Commissioned Officers Question - Why aren't they liked?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » November 25th, 2004, 4:22 pm

Allow me to briefly introduce myself. I'm 20, in college, and have two more years left until I ship. I plan on attending Ranger school as a commissioned officer. I know the textbook layout of the military, but since I'm not in it's hard to understand the mentaility and culture of it. Please understand this as you are reading.

I'm not quite sure about why CO's are hated so badly. I searched the board(s) to try and find an answer, but all I really found was more bad dispositions towards them. From what I understand, they basically handle things more at the administrative end, and that's the only textbook difference between them and an enlisted or NCO. When I think about attending OCS I keep in mind that the reason I'm becoming a CO is to set an example and be a leader...not because I'm "better" or anything, but simply because I choose to take on responsibility - the responsibility or being a good leader. I may be mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't speak for everybody. Enlisted, NCO's, CO's, yeah, they are positions, and they are to be respected, but the thing I personally will keep in mind is that behind every rank there is a human being - and one thing that human beings don't like to do is take shit unessicarily. So although one has the power to deal unessicary shit, I don't believe they should. I'm not talking about training either...I know that's apart of the process - there has to be discipline, I'm talking about is being a prick just to be a prick, not being a firm because it might one day save someone's life. I've been in leadership positions before, and on more occasions that I would have liked, I have abused thier power. Luckily for myself, I was able to write these off as "learning experiences" because the consequences were small and fairly unimpacting. The bottom line is that nothing good ever came out of it, and it WON'T happen again. It hasn't in the past several leadership positions I have been in.

I was interested to read on another post about your mentality when you go to Ranger school. My mentality will be summed up in the words of Rudy Tomjonavich - BE HUMBLE, fight hard. I've fought hard without being humble, but God it's come back to bite me in the ass.

I'm not an idealist. Although I may sound like one, this is truly how I feel. I want to get this question cornered so that I can confront the problem BEFORE I even go in. The last thing that I was to do is waste the Army's and everybody's (including those on this board) time. I have been given the option to be in the Army and to attend both OCS and Ranger school. I consider these incredible honors, and I don't want to mess this up. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

And last but certainly not least, I would like to thank you all for serving. As a civilian, I do not understand the sacrifices you all make and I never will until I enter. The least I can can do until then is appreciate them and thank you all for protecting my freedoms.

With regards,

-Phil

Oreo · Post by **Oreo** » November 25th, 2004, 4:30 pm

I searched the board(s) to try and find an answer, but all I really found was more bad dispositions towards them

You must not have searched good enough or else you wouldve found the introductions section http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=35And while your at it familiarize yourself with the FAQs http://www.armyranger.com/bb/faq.php

ImportsRsloths · Post by **ImportsRsloths** » November 26th, 2004, 1:40 am

You should be more worried about how your going to get to the Ranger BN officer or not. I don't know if your hippy ass has what it takes.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » November 26th, 2004, 7:13 am

Thank you for your response & insight Ranger ImportsRsloths, but I'm not worried about anything - I just want to know why CO's generally aren't liked.

-Phil

Bugsy · Post by **Bugsy** » November 26th, 2004, 7:19 am

ImportsRsloths wrote:You should be more worried about how your going to get to the Ranger BN officer or not. I don't know if your hippy ass has what it takes.

If you're worried about why officers are liked or disliked you won't make a very effective Officer or Leader. It seems as though you're referring to a "Regular Army or Slug" type of mentality, WE'RE RANGERS THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!!!

There are all different kinds of Officers, those who are Ranger "Qualified", those who served at either Regiment or Bn, those who once were enlisted and then went to OCS became commissioned and then were accepted into Regiment. Overall I take issue with your statement regarding LEADERSHIP, there are Leaders on both ends, it is the thing that makes Rangers unique, we are trained to make Decisions under stressful circumstances whether they might normally be made by an officer or enlisted man.

In terms of like or dislike that's an individual thing but it doesn't have a "direct impact" on a Ranger overall because it never should. Most of us are considered to be assholes anyway, we don't like anybody, we don't give a shit who they are, what race or background they come from. It ain't about being "liked" its about being COMPETENT, and if you're not squared away then consider your ass HISTORY!

So instead of wondering if you'll be fookin LIKED like some queer candy assed SOB, be concerned as to whether your COMPETENT TO LEAD MEN/SOLDIERS and you might find yourself with the properMINDSET!

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » November 26th, 2004, 7:24 am

Thank you for clearing up my misunderstandings Ranger BeadleBug - your points are well taken/understood.

-Phil

Bell · Post by **Bell** » November 26th, 2004, 8:04 am

Grendel, you ever have a regular job? One with a foreman and a big boss?

That foreman is like a sergeant. He runs things for the boss. Now when the work gets stupid, it ain't the foreman's fault. It's the boss. I've worked jobs where the foreman was one squared away mofo but the boss was fucked up as all get out. If the boss would leave it alone the foreman would do a great job. No one like the boss.

The military is like that. When you get a CO that gives bullshit orders and training, then everyone has a tendency to not like him. That's why most of the enlisted personnel appreciate a CO that started out as an enlisted man. He understands the bullshit at the bottom of the ladder and takes better care of his men.

Officers are in a sorry position at times. They have to follow orders and hand them down. Understanding what that order will do to their men makes a good officer. Officers that just pass the shit along and don't worry about the consequences to their men are pieces of shit in damn near everyone's book.

I really enjoyed my time at Battalion because the CO entered the army as enlisted. He trained with us. The orders he passed on to us were fun. He was right beside us all the way. It was nothing for the CO to land on the ground beside you in a live fire, look over, and say, Don't ya just love this shit Bell? We'd both be grinning.

Being an officer is two jobs. Carrying out the orders from above and taking care of their men. Taking care of the men is the most important thing you can do. You can make em hate ya or love ya. How can you respect or like a man that doesn't give two hoots about your situation? Whether it be personal or military the CO has to deal with it. Take care of your men and they'll take care of you. Fuck em over and you'll have a sorry time during your stay. They'll be there long after you're gone and will have nothing but bad things to say about you.

Take care of your men.

RLTW
Bell

ImportsRsloths · Post by **ImportsRsloths** » November 26th, 2004, 8:46 am

Ive worked with quite a few Ranger officer and they are all great guys and drive the fuck on guys including the CO. Pretty much if your in BN your not a pussy.

Steadfast · Post by **Steadfast** » November 26th, 2004, 11:30 am

Nike Cat wrote:Sorry for asking a retarded question. As I understand it, officers get promoted and they move on to other units, or higher up the ladder. And an NCO stays with his unit for a long time, his unit is his job. So the officer knows whatever he does, he will move on anyway. Is that true?

Are you like an Officer still stuck in the 9th grade?

j/k

Ranger2 · Post by **Ranger2** » November 26th, 2004, 11:08 pm

Any leader, in the Army or as a civilian is only good if they lead by example. If you order your men to go to the field and train and then you drive around in a truck and sleep at the barracks while they sleep in the rain and cold they aren't going to like you much. They want to know that you know your job and especially in the Rangers they want to know that you won't get them killed because of stupidity, especially your own.

I had very good officers. One was not on the same level as the others but he was probably still good in the overall army. The last one was a great guy but he was still pretty immature but he was still good. My first LT was prior enlisted and he was by far the best, Lt Martindale. He could run like a mutherfucker and he knew he job but he also listened to what others had to say, but the buck always stopped with him. I was his RTO.

The best leader I ever saw was my last squad leader. SSG Fuller. Last I knew he was a Captain now. He always led by example. He knew more, he did more, he always thought of his men first. I am sure he is the same as a officer. He was at least a E-6Promotable but I think a E-7 when he went to OCS, he had been in the 82nd before coming to 2/75. He was a Panama vet. Just think of the experience he had over most new 2nd LT's, 22 years old, no experience and no idea of how to run a team let along a platoon. Big difference.

Ranger2

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » November 27th, 2004, 7:29 am

Ranger BeadleBug, Ranger Bell, Ranger ImportsRsloths, USMC XMarine, & Ranger Ranger2 -

Thank you for the examples, words of wisdom, and responses. Within days of posting, you have clarified many of my misconceptions and prior thoughts. I'll heed all of your words, thanks for sharing them.

-Phil

TRLewis · Post by **TRLewis** » November 28th, 2004, 11:58 am

XMarine brought up some memories. After I found out an LT was right out of OCS, they became my bitch. On more than one occassion did I get chewed out by an NCO for having the LT report to a LCpl, or having the LT run errands for a LCpl. Now while I don't recommend all of you doing this it takes a little effort and a little bit of understanding people, let them think they are in charge. I used to love to say, "Yes sir, I could go over and take care of this. But I do this at least 5 or 6 times a week. Really once you get the practice of it you'll never forget. Also it might be a good idea if men of the other platoons get to know you. You or they could be switched at any moment. I'll go with you sir, just to make sure everything is squared away." Now at this point when I say I will go with him to correct whatever, may be the need for the trip, pride will take over and he will say no thats ok lewis I got it.

Just another point I thought of, I was in a mixed gender unit for 6 months before I got the fuck out of there. I won't go into details but it would have involved a brand new LT being charged with sexual harrasment, conduct unbecoming an officer, along with some others. That's why I got out of that unit, I was on loan to anyone who needed me.

Parabellum · Post by **Parabellum** » November 28th, 2004, 12:11 pm

Just remember one thing. If your men bust your balls and give you a hard time....they like you. If all you get is a "Good morning Sir." They most likely would like to see you killed in a "Training accident".