Special Forces launch rare attack inside Syria
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ChipOnShoulder
No, what's too bad is that the PAO for the unit wasn't on the ball and let the Syrians roll out with their version of the story first. They're saying that the SF soldiers whacked a bunch of civilians, including women and children.
Regardless of how much the people that got hit had it coming, this is going to hurt us.
Regardless of how much the people that got hit had it coming, this is going to hurt us.
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The Holmchicken
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Kinda like a criminals confession. When they get caught they blame everybody but themselves and refuse to accept responsibility. So we blew their shit up. If they did their part, wouldnt be a problem.
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I'm not the way I am because I was a Ranger - I was a Ranger because of the way I am.
¿Querría usted el primer redondo en la rodilla o la cara?
The road goes on forever and the party never ends.
U.S. says Iraqi militant killed in Syria raid
By Eric Schmitt and Thom Shanker
International Herald Tribune
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
WASHINGTON: A raid into Syria on Sunday was carried out by American Special Operations forces who killed an Iraqi militant responsible for running weapons, money and foreign fighters across the border into Iraq, American officials said Monday.
The helicopter-borne attack into Syria was by far the boldest by American commandos in the five years since the United States invaded Iraq and began to condemn Syria's role in stoking the Iraqi insurgency.
The timing was startling, not least because American officials praised Syria in recent months for its efforts to halt traffic across the border.
But in justifying the attack, American officials said the Bush administration was determined to operate under an expansive definition of self-defense that provided a rationale for strikes on militant targets in sovereign nations without those countries' consent.
Together with a similar American commando raid into Pakistan more than seven weeks ago, the operation on Sunday appeared to reflect an intensifying effort by the Bush administration to find a way during its waning months to attack militants even beyond the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan, where the United States is at war.
Administration officials declined to say whether the emerging application of self-defense could lead to strikes against camps inside Iran that have been used to train Shiite "special groups" that have fought with the American military and Iraqi security forces.
American officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of the raid said the mission had been mounted rapidly over the weekend on orders from the Central Intelligence Agency when the location of the man suspected of leading an insurgent cell, an Iraqi known as Abu Ghadiya, was confirmed. About two dozen American commandos in specially equipped Black Hawk helicopters swooped into the village of Sukkariyah, near the Iraqi border, just before 5 p.m., and fought a brief gun battle with several militants, including Abu Ghadiya, the officials said.
It was unclear whether Abu Ghadiya died near his tent on the battlefield or after he was taken into American custody, one senior American official said.
One United States official described Abu Ghadiya as Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia's "most prominent" smuggler of foreign operatives crossing the Syrian border into Iraq, and in February the Treasury Department named him as one of four major figures in that group living in Syria.
The official said Abu Ghadiya was in his late 20s and came from a family of smugglers in Anbar Province, in western Iraq. He was also suspected of having led an attack in May on a police station in western Iraq that killed 11 Iraqi officers, an American official said.
Spokesmen for the Defense Department and CIA declined to comment on the attack. On Sunday, an American military official had denied that American military helicopters had played a part in the raid.
Since the Sept. 11 attacks, the United States has attacked terrorism suspects in the ungoverned spaces of countries like Yemen and Somalia. But administration officials said Monday that the strikes in Pakistan and Syria were carried out on the basis of a legal argument that has been refined in recent months to justify strikes by troops and by rockets on militants in countries with which the United States is not at war.
The justification is different from the concept of pre-emption the administration articulated immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks, and which was used as the rationale for the invasion of Iraq. While pre-emption was used to justify attacks against governments and their armies, the self-defense argument would justify attacks on insurgents operating on foreign soil that threatened the forces, allies or interests of the United States.
Administration officials pointed Monday to a passage in President George W. Bush's speech to the United Nations General Assembly last month as the clearest articulation of this position to date.
"As sovereign states, we have an obligation to govern responsibly, and solve problems before they spill across borders," Bush said. "We have an obligation to prevent our territory from being used as a sanctuary for terrorism and proliferation and human trafficking and organized crime."
In seeking to carry out cross-border missions inside Pakistan and now in Syria, the United States government is expected to make the case that these operations will help protect the lives of American troops. It is not clear how far-reaching the White House may be in seeking to apply the rationale, but several senior American officials expressed hope that it would be embraced by the next president as well.
The American military has on occasion mounted attacks on Syrian soil to support its military operations in Iraq, but they mostly have been cross-border missile strikes, and there was a rare case of ground forces briefly crossing the frontier in hot pursuit of insurgents.
In London on Monday, Syria's foreign minister, Walid al-Moallem, accused the United States of "terrorist aggression" in the raid, in which Syria said eight civilians had been killed. A senior American official said all the people killed in the assault were militants, and that women and children living with the militants had not been harmed.
In seeking support in international law for its actions, the Bush administration is joining a list of nations that have cited Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which enshrines the right of individual or collective self-defense to all member states.
Over the years, a growing body of legal argument has made the case that this right of self-defense allows a nation to take military action on the territory of another sovereign nation that is unable or unwilling to take measures on its own to halt the threat.
This argument was emphasized when the Israeli military mounted a hostage-rescue mission at Entebbe airport in Uganda in 1976, and similar arguments have been made to defend actions by the Colombian military against the FARC guerrillas seeking haven in neighboring countries, and Turkish troops pursuing Kurdish militants in their sanctuaries in northern Iraq.
Israel also made this argument when, in September last year, its warplanes attacked what Israel said was a nuclear reactor in Syria that was nearing operational capability.
This month, General David Petraeus, the former top commander in Iraq, said that the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq had dwindled to less than 20 a month from a peak of more than 120 a month a year ago.
But one military officer said Monday that while Syria had been able to take specific steps like detaining combat-age men found flying into Damascus airport on one-way tickets, there had been less success in halting the flow of money and weapons to the insurgency.
The Iraqi government found itself in an awkward position on Monday as it sought at once to remain on friendly terms with Syria, which is a neighbor and now home to more than a million Iraqi refugees, but also to bolster the United States in going after people believed to be fomenting antigovernment unrest in Iraq.
"This area was a staging ground for activities by terrorist organizations hostile to Iraq," said Ali al-Dabbagh, the Iraqi government spokesman. He said Iraq had previously requested that Syrian authorities hand over insurgents who were using Syria as their base.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/28/ ... 8syria.php
By Eric Schmitt and Thom Shanker
International Herald Tribune
Tuesday, October 28, 2008
WASHINGTON: A raid into Syria on Sunday was carried out by American Special Operations forces who killed an Iraqi militant responsible for running weapons, money and foreign fighters across the border into Iraq, American officials said Monday.
The helicopter-borne attack into Syria was by far the boldest by American commandos in the five years since the United States invaded Iraq and began to condemn Syria's role in stoking the Iraqi insurgency.
The timing was startling, not least because American officials praised Syria in recent months for its efforts to halt traffic across the border.
But in justifying the attack, American officials said the Bush administration was determined to operate under an expansive definition of self-defense that provided a rationale for strikes on militant targets in sovereign nations without those countries' consent.
Together with a similar American commando raid into Pakistan more than seven weeks ago, the operation on Sunday appeared to reflect an intensifying effort by the Bush administration to find a way during its waning months to attack militants even beyond the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan, where the United States is at war.
Administration officials declined to say whether the emerging application of self-defense could lead to strikes against camps inside Iran that have been used to train Shiite "special groups" that have fought with the American military and Iraqi security forces.
American officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of the raid said the mission had been mounted rapidly over the weekend on orders from the Central Intelligence Agency when the location of the man suspected of leading an insurgent cell, an Iraqi known as Abu Ghadiya, was confirmed. About two dozen American commandos in specially equipped Black Hawk helicopters swooped into the village of Sukkariyah, near the Iraqi border, just before 5 p.m., and fought a brief gun battle with several militants, including Abu Ghadiya, the officials said.
It was unclear whether Abu Ghadiya died near his tent on the battlefield or after he was taken into American custody, one senior American official said.
One United States official described Abu Ghadiya as Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia's "most prominent" smuggler of foreign operatives crossing the Syrian border into Iraq, and in February the Treasury Department named him as one of four major figures in that group living in Syria.
The official said Abu Ghadiya was in his late 20s and came from a family of smugglers in Anbar Province, in western Iraq. He was also suspected of having led an attack in May on a police station in western Iraq that killed 11 Iraqi officers, an American official said.
Spokesmen for the Defense Department and CIA declined to comment on the attack. On Sunday, an American military official had denied that American military helicopters had played a part in the raid.
Since the Sept. 11 attacks, the United States has attacked terrorism suspects in the ungoverned spaces of countries like Yemen and Somalia. But administration officials said Monday that the strikes in Pakistan and Syria were carried out on the basis of a legal argument that has been refined in recent months to justify strikes by troops and by rockets on militants in countries with which the United States is not at war.
The justification is different from the concept of pre-emption the administration articulated immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks, and which was used as the rationale for the invasion of Iraq. While pre-emption was used to justify attacks against governments and their armies, the self-defense argument would justify attacks on insurgents operating on foreign soil that threatened the forces, allies or interests of the United States.
Administration officials pointed Monday to a passage in President George W. Bush's speech to the United Nations General Assembly last month as the clearest articulation of this position to date.
"As sovereign states, we have an obligation to govern responsibly, and solve problems before they spill across borders," Bush said. "We have an obligation to prevent our territory from being used as a sanctuary for terrorism and proliferation and human trafficking and organized crime."
In seeking to carry out cross-border missions inside Pakistan and now in Syria, the United States government is expected to make the case that these operations will help protect the lives of American troops. It is not clear how far-reaching the White House may be in seeking to apply the rationale, but several senior American officials expressed hope that it would be embraced by the next president as well.
The American military has on occasion mounted attacks on Syrian soil to support its military operations in Iraq, but they mostly have been cross-border missile strikes, and there was a rare case of ground forces briefly crossing the frontier in hot pursuit of insurgents.
In London on Monday, Syria's foreign minister, Walid al-Moallem, accused the United States of "terrorist aggression" in the raid, in which Syria said eight civilians had been killed. A senior American official said all the people killed in the assault were militants, and that women and children living with the militants had not been harmed.
In seeking support in international law for its actions, the Bush administration is joining a list of nations that have cited Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which enshrines the right of individual or collective self-defense to all member states.
Over the years, a growing body of legal argument has made the case that this right of self-defense allows a nation to take military action on the territory of another sovereign nation that is unable or unwilling to take measures on its own to halt the threat.
This argument was emphasized when the Israeli military mounted a hostage-rescue mission at Entebbe airport in Uganda in 1976, and similar arguments have been made to defend actions by the Colombian military against the FARC guerrillas seeking haven in neighboring countries, and Turkish troops pursuing Kurdish militants in their sanctuaries in northern Iraq.
Israel also made this argument when, in September last year, its warplanes attacked what Israel said was a nuclear reactor in Syria that was nearing operational capability.
This month, General David Petraeus, the former top commander in Iraq, said that the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq had dwindled to less than 20 a month from a peak of more than 120 a month a year ago.
But one military officer said Monday that while Syria had been able to take specific steps like detaining combat-age men found flying into Damascus airport on one-way tickets, there had been less success in halting the flow of money and weapons to the insurgency.
The Iraqi government found itself in an awkward position on Monday as it sought at once to remain on friendly terms with Syria, which is a neighbor and now home to more than a million Iraqi refugees, but also to bolster the United States in going after people believed to be fomenting antigovernment unrest in Iraq.
"This area was a staging ground for activities by terrorist organizations hostile to Iraq," said Ali al-Dabbagh, the Iraqi government spokesman. He said Iraq had previously requested that Syrian authorities hand over insurgents who were using Syria as their base.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/28/ ... 8syria.php
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Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
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rgrokelley
- Triple Canopy
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- Joined: February 5th, 2008, 5:57 pm
Yep, spot on.EvilCouch wrote:No, what's too bad is that the PAO for the unit wasn't on the ball and let the Syrians roll out with their version of the story first. They're saying that the SF soldiers whacked a bunch of civilians, including women and children.
Regardless of how much the people that got hit had it coming, this is going to hurt us.
We are still hearing about it here even..............
WHEN IN DOUBT, SHOOT IT OUT!
Never let your fears stand in the way of your dreams.
RS 4-92
Never let your fears stand in the way of your dreams.
RS 4-92
I think that the Syrian government made a pertinent observation when they commented that the USG cannot seal our own border with Mexico.
On the other hand, they have been asked repeatedly to take specific action against this particular bad guy, they were told where he was, and what he was doing, and they declined.
Funny... when they showed the bodies of the dead before burial, there were no kids there.
I hope that Dubya keeps the gloves off and goes out with a bang.
My dream op: multiple raids against nuke and Guards targets in Iran.
On the other hand, they have been asked repeatedly to take specific action against this particular bad guy, they were told where he was, and what he was doing, and they declined.
Funny... when they showed the bodies of the dead before burial, there were no kids there.
I hope that Dubya keeps the gloves off and goes out with a bang.
My dream op: multiple raids against nuke and Guards targets in Iran.
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Classes 12, 13, and 14-81.
Company A, 2d Battalion (Ranger), 1st Platoon, "Bad 'Muthers," 1980-1984;
SFQC 4-84.
Company B, 2d Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne), ODA 151, 1984-1986.
Classes 12, 13, and 14-81.
Company A, 2d Battalion (Ranger), 1st Platoon, "Bad 'Muthers," 1980-1984;
SFQC 4-84.
Company B, 2d Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne), ODA 151, 1984-1986.
