Re: Disrespect

[JB466]

I'm 19 myself, and I have noticed the same thing in other kids my age. Some of the things I've watched come out of their mouthes at their parents or maybe a teacher, I would never have even imagined my self saying, and if I did, my dad would have probably knocked me through a wall. However I attribute that due to being raised by a soldier, and coming a small North Carolina town, where respect/manners is pretty much expected.

[The Holmchicken]

Discipline, with a surgical application of fear, can produce wonders. My Dad is 65 and I still fear him. He's been nothing but an absolutely loving dad and I have the best parents around. However, even now just one month shy of 30, there's still that kernel of fear. It's kept me straight and narrow.....for the most part . It's like painting a house, if you don't start with a good base coat (discipline/fear), you're gonna get a shitty paint job.

[bulldogg]

As a teacher I found myself reading this thread and nodding in agreement with every point made about discipline, accountability, lack of proper parenting and can add that this is not isolated to the US. I teach in an international school and my kids are Taiwanese, Japanese and Korean for the most part and I see the same shit daily. But I'm also blessed that I don't teach in the US where the teachers are held hostage by a system that perpetuates lowering of standards and giving the students excuse upon excuse for failing but still wants to hold teachers' feet to the fire for what I see as a holistic failure of society to teach these children about life and their role in it.

With regards to respect for elders and people in authority I see it in varying degrees and in each and every case the more traditional and less "modern" the dynamics of the family the more respectful and responsible the children are... and that is something I want to add. There is a direct relation between respect shown to others and respect for oneself and it shows in the responsibility a person, in this case a student, shows for their own actions and choices. Kids who learn these lessons go further, farther and faster than the ones who are coddled and given a pass each time they put in no effort and fail.

As for grades I must acknowledge that each child is not blessed by the creator with equal measures of intelligence. BUT they each have their own potential and THAT is what I expect for my students to hit. It takes time to get to know the students, something that most teachers no longer do for varying reasons but it is essential as I see those in my profession as the last chance these kids have to learn something before they are turned loose on the rest of the world. I do not ride a student for making mistakes or doing poorly on an exam in my class... I do smoke them for not trying, for not asking questions to clarify, for not doing their homework and for giving up.

And I do smoke them, they get smarter or they get stronger as they learn to get smarter. Pushups for asking a question that was just asked and answered. Pushups for failure to follow directions. Pushups for rolling their eyes, smarting off, cursing, being impolite to a fellow student or anything else they know beforehand is unacceptable in my classroom. And its equal in the class, boys and girls, there is no one above meeting the standards. They learn to meet the standard and in the process they learn they CAN do this stuff and that they are worthy of something. Because I also praise them when they put in their full effort and when they do well. I joke with them and we have fun as long as they do what is required and its important that they be informed EXPLICITLY as to what those requirements are. My teaching style is moulded exactly after one of my Basic training Drill Sergeants, DS Simmons. We learned where the boundaries are and that as long as we stayed in there that we could have fun while getting the job done but that if we crossed those lines there was hell to pay.

Other teachers criticise my methods and call me such wonderful things as "dinosaur" and "asshole" and say how much they would hate to be one of my students... but my kids come back and tell me "Thank you". My students have made it into Cornell, Brown, the London School of Economics and other teachers SEE a difference in the kids that have been in my class. They carry themselves different, they don't just respect others, they respect themselves and in doing so they start to believe in themselves and they achieve what others around them think is impossible. If the parents won't do it, I will because I see it as part of the job. Its not just one subject I'm teaching to these kids, just like with parents, they learn not just the content of the words that come out of my mouth but also and probably more importantly, they learn about how to be, how to speak, how to live from the actions they observe.

It is important to spend time with kids but you can't just talk a good game they must see it in action. Its what they see parents, teachers and other adults do that they learn and mimic. Show me a kid that's an asshole and I'll guarantee you that mom and/or dad is an even bigger one.

As for the kids sounding off on this forum about the topic, meh, its the very rare bird under the age of 25 who has his head far enough out of his own ass yet to know what's best for them. Wisdom only comes with age and THAT is why it is so damn critical that WE adults guide these young minds and mould them into something other than cannon fodder and disrespectful little welfare leeching oxygen thieves.

[MrsDocMac]

I think it's not necassarily age as much as it is regional even. I'm from Mississippi and I'm only 23 but I still spank my kids and if I'm out and about I say ma'am and sir to folks my own age even. It's astounding the differences when you go further north though. I was in Chicago one summer driving through and stopped at a gas station for fuel. When I went in to pay I couldn't remember what pump I was on so I told the lady it was the little black escape on the outside pump. She asked me if I had $20.oo in gas and I said yes Ma'am and she just went off telling me I didn'thave to be a smartass. I was just being respectful since she was probably twice my age.

I think it has a lot ot do with what everyone else has said. Kids just need their ass whooped more often. The world would be a helluva better place. I know my parents beat the fuck out of me when I was bad, all the way up till I enlisted at 17.

[centermass]

it's really a simple concept. it just also happens to be the hardest thing I've ever done...

anyone ever asks me, what's the greatest thing you've accomplished, my answer has always been, "two things, their names are XXXX and XXXX, and momma had more to do with it then me".

Parenting and leadership both, are the hardest jobs you'll ever love.

[RTO]

As a teacher I found myself reading this thread and nodding in agreement with every point made about discipline, accountability, lack of proper parenting and can add that this is not isolated to the US. I teach in an international school and my kids are Taiwanese, Japanese and Korean for the most part and I see the same shit daily. But I'm also blessed that I don't teach in the US where the teachers are held hostage by a system that perpetuates lowering of standards and giving the students excuse upon excuse for failing but still wants to hold teachers' feet to the fire for what I see as a holistic failure of society to teach these children about life and their role in it.

With regards to respect for elders and people in authority I see it in varying degrees and in each and every case the more traditional and less "modern" the dynamics of the family the more respectful and responsible the children are... and that is something I want to add. There is a direct relation between respect shown to others and respect for oneself and it shows in the responsibility a person, in this case a student, shows for their own actions and choices. Kids who learn these lessons go further, farther and faster than the ones who are coddled and given a pass each time they put in no effort and fail.

As for grades I must acknowledge that each child is not blessed by the creator with equal measures of intelligence. BUT they each have their own potential and THAT is what I expect for my students to hit. It takes time to get to know the students, something that most teachers no longer do for varying reasons but it is essential as I see those in my profession as the last chance these kids have to learn something before they are turned loose on the rest of the world. I do not ride a student for making mistakes or doing poorly on an exam in my class... I do smoke them for not trying, for not asking questions to clarify, for not doing their homework and for giving up.

And I do smoke them, they get smarter or they get stronger as they learn to get smarter. Pushups for asking a question that was just asked and answered. Pushups for failure to follow directions. Pushups for rolling their eyes, smarting off, cursing, being impolite to a fellow student or anything else they know beforehand is unacceptable in my classroom. And its equal in the class, boys and girls, there is no one above meeting the standards. They learn to meet the standard and in the process they learn they CAN do this stuff and that they are worthy of something. Because I also praise them when they put in their full effort and when they do well. I joke with them and we have fun as long as they do what is required and its important that they be informed EXPLICITLY as to what those requirements are. My teaching style is moulded exactly after one of my Basic training Drill Sergeants, DS Simmons. We learned where the boundaries are and that as long as we stayed in there that we could have fun while getting the job done but that if we crossed those lines there was hell to pay.

Other teachers criticise my methods and call me such wonderful things as "dinosaur" and "asshole" and say how much they would hate to be one of my students... but my kids come back and tell me "Thank you". My students have made it into Cornell, Brown, the London School of Economics and other teachers SEE a difference in the kids that have been in my class. They carry themselves different, they don't just respect others, they respect themselves and in doing so they start to believe in themselves and they achieve what others around them think is impossible. If the parents won't do it, I will because I see it as part of the job. Its not just one subject I'm teaching to these kids, just like with parents, they learn not just the content of the words that come out of my mouth but also and probably more importantly, they learn about how to be, how to speak, how to live from the actions they observe.

It is important to spend time with kids but you can't just talk a good game they must see it in action. Its what they see parents, teachers and other adults do that they learn and mimic. Show me a kid that's an asshole and I'll guarantee you that mom and/or dad is an even bigger one.

As for the kids sounding off on this forum about the topic, meh, its the very rare bird under the age of 25 who has his head far enough out of his own ass yet to know what's best for them. Wisdom only comes with age and THAT is why it is so damn critical that WE adults guide these young minds and mould them into something other than cannon fodder and disrespectful little welfare leeching oxygen thieves.

This Ranger tips his beret in your general direction and raises a shot of Johnny Walker Blue in your honor tonight Sir!

[bulldogg]

I am humbled, thank you RTO and I tip a shot of Bombay Sapphire back to you and the other Rangers, Active Duty personnel and Vets on this board who make it possible for me to do this job by both your service and your example.

[RTO]

I am humbled, thank you RTO and I tip a shot of Bombay Sapphire back to you and the other Rangers, Active Duty personnel and Vets on this board who make it possible for me to do this job by both your service and your example.

You sound like a living, walking, breathing example of the teaching style I call 'tough love' I remember from the '67 classic film "To Sir, with Love" starring Sidney Poitier.

[Ribot0]

I am 20 years old and live in the northeast. I see a big difference in respect shown towards parents and authority figures between my peers and I. Growing up, nearly all the other kids either had two working parents or divorced ones. In my opinion, the biggest reason why I turned out different than them was my close relationships with my parents. My Mom always needed to know exactly where I was at any given time, and always treated me fairly. My Dad always was there for any of my sports practices, games, and meets. This really made a big impact on me, and my parents never used any corporal punishment, instead taking away my privileges to go on the computer, hang out with friends, or talk to girls on the phone. When I screwed up and did something wrong, they never ignored it. When I came forward with a formal apology, and actually changed my behavior to show that I meant it, almost always my punishment would be lightened. They rewarded good behavior, punished bad, and took the time to support me by coming to sporting events and anything big I had going on. These things taught me to be a squared away individual. Most other parents these days, even though their intentions and methods may be good, just don’t seem to be around enough to raise disciplined kids.

[MrsDocMac]

I am 20 years old and live in the northeast. I see a big difference in respect shown towards parents and authority figures between my peers and I. Growing up, nearly all the other kids either had two working parents or divorced ones. In my opinion, the biggest reason why I turned out different than them was my close relationships with my parents. My Mom always needed to know exactly where I was at any given time, and always treated me fairly. My Dad always was there for any of my sports practices, games, and meets. This really made a big impact on me, and my parents never used any corporal punishment, instead taking away my privileges to go on the computer, hang out with friends, or talk to girls on the phone. When I screwed up and did something wrong, they never ignored it. When I came forward with a formal apology, and actually changed my behavior to show that I meant it, almost always my punishment would be lightened. They rewarded good behavior, punished bad, and took the time to support me by coming to sporting events and anything big I had going on. These things taught me to be a squared away individual. Most other parents these days, even though their intentions and methods may be good, just don’t seem to be around enough to raise disciplined kids.

Both my parents worked, Dad went in at 0500 and got home at 2200 damn near every night. I didn't play any sports hardly, and the few things I did do, nine times out of ten I rode to and from with friends because my mom didn't get off till about 1900 and went into work at 0600. I hate it when people say "Oh, well my parents worked too much," and now you are saying it for them. Their parents were putting food onthe table and clothes on their backs. Mine worked more than most and I am just fine. Of course, they did whoop my ass when I fucked up so maybe that's the difference. No spanking if they are lucky enough to have the time afforded them to watch your every move.... :? It boils down not to how much time you spend with them, but what you do and say in the moments you have.

[Jim]

I am 20 years old and live in the northeast. I see a big difference in respect shown towards parents and authority figures between my peers and I. Growing up, nearly all the other kids either had two working parents or divorced ones. In my opinion, the biggest reason why I turned out different than them was my close relationships with my parents. My Mom always needed to know exactly where I was at any given time, and always treated me fairly. My Dad always was there for any of my sports practices, games, and meets. This really made a big impact on me, and my parents never used any corporal punishment, instead taking away my privileges to go on the computer, hang out with friends, or talk to girls on the phone. When I screwed up and did something wrong, they never ignored it. When I came forward with a formal apology, and actually changed my behavior to show that I meant it, almost always my punishment would be lightened. They rewarded good behavior, punished bad, and took the time to support me by coming to sporting events and anything big I had going on. These things taught me to be a squared away individual. Most other parents these days, even though their intentions and methods may be good, just don’t seem to be around enough to raise disciplined kids.

Both my parents worked, Dad went in at 0500 and got home at 2200 damn near every night. I didn't play any sports hardly, and the few things I did do, nine times out of ten I rode to and from with friends because my mom didn't get off till about 1900 and went into work at 0600. I hate it when people say "Oh, well my parents worked too much," and now you are saying it for them. Their parents were putting food onthe table and clothes on their backs. Mine worked more than most and I am just fine. Of course, they did whoop my ass when I fucked up so maybe that's the difference. No spanking if they are lucky enough to have the time afforded them to watch your every move.... :? It boils down not to how much time you spend with them, but what you do and say in the moments you have.

Amen! I don't think I could say it better. Thanks, Ma'am.

[RTO]

I'm seriously surprised someone hasn't blamed all of the problems with todays kids and the divorse rate and two parent working families in todays society on Bush's economy and high taxation rates!

[Julieanne]

There are so many different ways to raise kids; look at the past four pages! But it seems that whatever things have worked, they worked because our parents, or WE are consistent with our children; our kids understand their limits and are given clear consequences when they mess up - it just works.

My parents were not consistent, they did not stick together, and they got divorced after I left the house - talk about a nightmare place to be raised, I wasn't a bad kid, but I was on restriction most of my teen years. My sister had a more difficult time than I did - so difficult that she came to live with us for a year. I wish we kept her longer.

I want my kids to have fun, I want them to know that we do indeed have expectations, and if they choose to not fulfill those expectations, they will have consequences (ie: the FUN will be taken away). Our teen daughter is learning this the hard way .

We didn't ever need to use time out, or hand smacks when they were young- we would just get down to their level and explain why something was dangerous or naughty - thankfully that worked for them. On the other hand, if they got themselves into a mess, I (mindfully) took responsibility for them not being supervised properly first, and then explained to them why they shouldn't do that again, (ie: hiding in the dept. store, disappearing near a river, turning up the stovetop when "we" were making popcorn...). Both of them have been slapped across the face, the good, old world, Italian way, but that has only been when they smarted off - we are lucky because so far, ours have not been "troublemakers".

I am very thankful that I have been able to stay home with my kids. I like being available to them and I am grateful that Wade has not pushed me to become a member of the rat race.