Can we win

[reaper96]

The other day as I am waiting for my wife at the DR. office this Vietnam vet slides over and asks me "can we win", my natural reaction and answer was "yes". As I believed he was referring to Iraq and Afghanistan.

I readily stated that even though we as a nation have lost so many soldiers, it still does not compare with some of the battles in WWII or any other war that we have fought in. My examples were D-Day and Iwo Jima and the numbers that were lost in those two great battles.

I also commented that even though we have more wounded today and the numbers of are fallen do not compare is because of the fact that are medical staff and personal protection factors have come along so fare that the death rate will decline even more then it was even in the last golf war.

The question died from their and I was lost in thought remembering and contemplating my memories when I was their.

This was my thought: first what is the main reason we are their. Well I came up with "to punish the evil doers" as Pres. G. Bush has said. Then I came with this other Idea. The real reason that I was there was so insure that my kids and grand kids would not have to endure the same feelings that I had on 911.

The second reason that I thought of was this: we can not change those that have already the belief that we Americans are evil but through teachings and are actions with the children would in the long run be the ultimate test of faith. This would be the true out come and test for two countries to ultimately prosper.

No soldier especially an Airborne Ranger will ever accept defeat especially admitting to defeat or losing. I am no exception in this matter. My wife can confirm when we play rummy or go for a game of pool.

I know that most every Ranger that has fought in either OIF or OEF can account for at least one person that has asked them in some variation of this same question. I thought that this would be a good subject to see what every one’s opinion is in response to this simple question.

[Speedracer]

Do the people of American want to win, are they ready for the battle, the winds of change our out there, are we ready

like the lady on Glenn Beck said tonight, you got to ID the problem and have the balls to take care of it, stop being politicaly correct about everything.

Any soldier and as a old soldier we want to win and as americans thats our nature but are we ready..i hope so

[RRDTm3]

we haven't won a war since WWII

That was last war in which we killed enemy men, women and children

[RRDTm3]

we haven't won a war since WWII

That was last war in which we killed enemy men, women and children

Stirring the pot??

who me?


fuck no, I encourage the killing. But as long as those over there have to worry about the five W's...................................

[hobbit]

It's not a matter of "winning". Every Roman general from the time of the Republic through the Imperial period and 300 years of decline, knew it was a matter of fighting the Huns on the Danube rather than in the streets of Rome. Unfortunately, many of our contemporary generals aren't nearly so insightful.

[RTO]

Not sure we will ever 'win' this war on terror. Not as long as we don't kill all the terrorist's first, and I don't see that happening in my lifetime. I think the best we can do is to manage and control the outbursts and eventually and gradually pull most of our troops out over the next 10-15 years.

[rangerrg_c75]

My 2 pennies for what it's worth. We lost this one the minute some asshole in Congress mentioned a timetable for troop withdrawals. The American people do not have the will or fortitude to fight an extended conflict. They cost us a win in SEA because we couldn't prosecute the way on the same terms as the North. They were willing to fight for 10,00 years and do what ever was required to win, If that meant killing entire villages so be it. We can not win in the Middle East as long as we worry about be "politically correct" and world opinion.

There are only two rules in warfare. No 1: WIN; No.2 : The Winner makes the rules.

[Silverback]

In WWII we were fighting against state sponsored Armies, this time we are competing with ideas. I think every day we do not suffer a foriegn attack on American soil is a win. I smoke a victory cigar at the end of each casualty free day, because in this war every day is a win.

There will never be a school yard "Your Army beat my Army" type agreement. I said a long time ago that "we are a nation that is changing how we fight without changing how we think"...some of you guys might want to study up and understand measures of effectiveness and Lines of Operation. It's a different battle with different rules.

[DixieRat]

It's not a matter of "winning". Every Roman general from the time of the Republic through the Imperial period and 300 years of decline, knew it was a matter of fighting the Huns on the Danube rather than in the streets of Rome. Unfortunately, many of our contemporary generals aren't nearly so insightful.

I agree wholeheartedly. While I'm not in this fight, on the current course I will be. Our operations in Iraq are not a war, but a battle in a far bigger war. That war is to determine whether the US and her allies will remain free nations or if we will succumb to Islamic Fascism.

The invasion of Iraq did a couple of good things for us. It gave the Islamic fanatics a place to go to die (and kill) that is not in the US. It gave us the opportunity as well to establish an ally in th middle of enemy territory. That will only occur if we are successful in Iraq.

The only real downside, IMO, is that we didn't totally stabilize Afghanistan first. That may prove to be our undoing in the area, especially with the results of the recent election.

[Silverback]

Unfortunately, many of our contemporary generals aren't nearly so insightful.

What is the basis for this statement?

[Rock Island Ranger]

I don't think it is the Generals or the Military that shackle the ability to win. It is and has been the politicians who call off the dogs and give us "compassionate rules of engagement". The whiners, the nay sayors, the civilians whose sensabilities will not allow them to close with and "DETROY" the enemy. We never will be able to win with an attitude of....can we just leave now. It has and will be the reason we will not win.

Yes, we CAN win but we will not be allowed to.

[Chiron]

My 2 pennies for what it's worth. We lost this one the minute some asshole in Congress mentioned a timetable for troop withdrawals. The American people do not have the will or fortitude to fight an extended conflict.

We can not win in the Middle East as long as we worry about be "politically correct" and world opinion.

I 100% agree with this! People have a very short memory. 9/11 will be forgotten until the next terrorist attack. Sadly Americans are seen as people without the stomach for war let alone the $pocket$.

I hope one day soon the U.S. will stop all foreign aid and let the world feel what it would be like without the U.S. Then let’s see who's with us or against us.

Unfortunately now that the "left" is rowing only God knows how many asses the U.S. will be kissing to keep the terrorists out.

Nevertheless, I predict that even if this war comes to a grinding halt, it will pick up again as soon as the terrorists hit again. The machine may take some time to reach "RPM" again but I feel that the terrorists will not be able to stop hitting once the pressure is off.

That's my $0.02 worth.

[Chiron]

In WWII we were fighting against state sponsored Armies, this time we are competing with ideas. I think every day we do not suffer a foriegn attack on American soil is a win. I smoke a victory cigar at the end of each casualty free day, because in this war every day is a win.

There will never be a school yard "Your Army beat my Army" type agreement. I said a long time ago that "we are a nation that is changing how we fight without changing how we think"...some of you guys might want to study up and understand measures of effectiveness and Lines of Operation. It's a different battle with different rules.

Spoken well indeed!

The other thing is that ideals are hard to beat. But not impossible, we require tenacity and strong will like when communism was defeated.

[DixieRat]

My 2 pennies for what it's worth. We lost this one the minute some asshole in Congress mentioned a timetable for troop withdrawals. The American people do not have the will or fortitude to fight an extended conflict.

We can not win in the Middle East as long as we worry about be "politically correct" and world opinion.

I 100% agree with this! People have a very short memory. 9/11 will be forgotten until the next terrorist attack. Sadly Americans are seen as people without the stomach for war let alone the $pocket$.

I hope one day soon the U.S. will stop all foreign aid and let the world feel what it would be like without the U.S. Then let’s see who's with us or against us.

Unfortunately now that the "left" is rowing only God knows how many asses the U.S. will be kissing to keep the terrorists out.

Nevertheless, I predict that even if this war comes to a grinding halt, it will pick up again as soon as the terrorists hit again. The machine may take some time to reach "RPM" again but I feel that the terrorists will not be able to stop hitting once the pressure is off.

That's my $0.02 worth.

My concern is that the next attack will leave us in a situation similar to that depicted in the TV show Jericho. I don't know that the terrorists have that kind of capability now (I doubt they do since they haven't used it), but they could real soon.

At any rate, I'm rethinking my SHTF scenario preperartion.

[Chiron]

I don't think it is the Generals or the Military that shackle the ability to win. It is and has been the politicians who call off the dogs and give us "compassionate rules of engagement". The whiners, the nay sayors, the civilians whose sensabilities will not allow them to close with and "DETROY" the enemy. We never will be able to win with an attitude of....can we just leave now. It has and will be the reason we will not win.

Yes, we CAN win but we will not be allowed to.

True and scary!