On the Topic of Looters...

[AbnRgr289]

Am I correct in thinking that the NG will NOT be issued ammunition? This is still a relief effort for them, like Hurricane Andrew?

How is the NG supposed to suppress the criminal activity and organize the evac of the people?

I don't have a HSM, so I'm asking BTDT's to clarify.

Good Morning America said the Governer has given a shoot to kill order for heavy looting.

I guess we'll see.

[Rock Island Ranger]

Am I correct in thinking that the NG will NOT be issued ammunition? This is still a relief effort for them, like Hurricane Andrew?

How is the NG supposed to suppress the criminal activity and organize the evac of the people?

I don't have a HSM, so I'm asking BTDT's to clarify.

Bo, it is LAW. The Gov. can request they be allowed to issue ammo, but it is assumed their mere presense is enough. NOT a good assumption. As for the law, remember Kent State.
It is a relief effort.

[SAWgunner4fun]

I'm stunned. This is what it has come to now. After a couple of late nights at the range and a couple of late work calls I finally get a chance to turn on the news.

Americans rescue choppers taking fire flying CSAR.

American doctors under fire trying to evac casualties.

American soldiers and LEOs getting killed in the city streets.

Al-qaeda must be having a field day with this shit. My Ranger buddies in Iraq and Afghanistan not taking this well. What little communication I have with them via e-mail indicate that they are taking this as a big "Fuck you!" and I don't blame them. I get back from a week at the range training to shoot and kill terrorists turn on the news and see this. It must be great to come back from a hit in Iraq or the 'Ghan and get the update on the situation in New Orleans.

I love to deploy but the idea that soldiers are going to lock and load and patrol the streets of a US city boggle my mind. If I got called in today to pack up and deploy to NO to fight insurgents and terrorists in my own country I would be one trigger happy mother fucker.

[rgrpuck]

N.O. is notoriously corrupt. and now you see the result of years of corruption.

[VAK]

N.O. is notoriously corrupt. and now you see the result of years of corruption.

While I am not going to pretend that the PD's above reproach, they have worked to clean themselves up over the past 10 years. Not to mention the FBI's efforts. Besides, I don't see condemning the police for the actions for gang banging pieces of shit, who make a clear decision to take their murdurous, rapist, looting onto a franchise level...

The media's been villifying everyone from the President on down to the lowest patrolman in the street while offering excuses for why these incidents happen. Back to the same old, disenfranchised, poor economic, what the fuckever. Normally I would debate this issue all to hell and back. But the knife wound on my back and the bullet scar in my stomach from my days working the ghetto tell me a bit different. This is simply criminals seizing an opportunity. Just like the King Riots. Fuck them, kill each one of them before the bring the situation to chaos.

[jsmurphy]

How's that Guiness drinkin' bitch of yours doing, Ranger Kilted Heathen?

His dog "Murphy", for fuck's sake.

[Warriorwife]

How's that Guiness drinkin' bitch of yours doing, Ranger Kilted Heathen?

His dog "Murphy", for fuck's sake.

[Creeping Death]

If you ask me, this is what we get when we, as a society, adhere to the concept of "community", embrace diversity, and throw all memories of individual reponsibility, individual achievement, and self-sufficiency out the window.

What we have here is a horrific real time, real life example of what the welfare state does to society. The "the government owes me" crowd running amuck when the government can't provide, even for a limited time. It would be sad if it were not so pathetic.

[Ardent Lady]

If you ask me, this is what we get when we, as a society, adhere to the concept of "community", embrace diversity, and throw all memories of individual reponsibility, individual achievement, and self-sufficiency out the window.

What we have here is a horrific real time, real life example of what the welfare state does to society. The "the government owes me" crowd running amuck when the government can't provide, even for a limited time. It would be sad if it were not so pathetic.

I couldn't agree more, Ranger Creeping Death. Self-sufficiency? When was the last time you heard anyone talk about that in the general culture? This is such a classic "Payday Someday, and You will reap what you sow" situation.

Not speaking about just this crisis, but when the general culture takes off the attitude that says, "I have a bad situation, I should do something about it" and puts on the mindset that says, "I have a bad situation, somebody should fix it," self-sufficiency dies completely, and the rest follows as a logical consequence. Katrina didn't create the situation - that much is clear - she only brought the fruit to harvest.

[Southern_Brit]

If you ask me, this is what we get when we, as a society, adhere to the concept of "community", embrace diversity, and throw all memories of individual reponsibility, individual achievement, and self-sufficiency out the window.

What we have here is a horrific real time, real life example of what the welfare state does to society. The "the government owes me" crowd running amuck when the government can't provide, even for a limited time. It would be sad if it were not so pathetic.

I couldn't agree more, Ranger Creeping Death. Self-sufficiency? When was the last time you heard anyone talk about that in the general culture? This is such a classic "Payday Someday, and You will reap what you sow" situation.

Not speaking about just this crisis, but when the general culture takes off the attitude that says, "I have a bad situation, I should do something about it" and puts on the mindset that says, "I have a bad situation, somebody should fix it," self-sufficiency dies completely, and the rest follows as a logical consequence. Katrina didn't create the situation - that much is clear - she only brought the fruit to harvest.

If I understand you both correctly, you are saying that the lack of self-sufficiency and a lean on the welfare state has caused many of the problems? I agree that people should be responsible for their own safety, well being and ask the question "What can I do to get through this"... but this attitude is a bit "I'm alright Jack" (i.e fuck everyone else!").
I lean towards the answer being that a 'community' spirit and social responsibilty would be the best thing - if people worked together, helped each other (their neighbours and fellow man) and work towards getting through this. In London during WW2, as the Germans bombed the shit out of the city, there was the potential for a lawless 'free for all'...now I know that was different situation, but there are similarities. Everyone pulled together, helped each other, fed each other, housed each other... many living in the underground stations (The Tube).. The same applies during terrorists attacks... you don't run around like a headless chicken, you don't seize the opportunity for self gain and just look after your own interests - you pitch in and help.
Regarding relying on the government...they do owe you in some respects - you pay taxes! They have a duty of responsibility... as much as I like to think I look after myself and my own, I would hope my government at least offered basic essentials... food and water and helping the sick and dying - I'm seeng pictures and footage of dying babies here, hospital patients dying in the carpark, policemen handing in their badges as the situation has gone tits up... to me the government (any government) needs to resolve these matters.

I am oversees, a foreigner...but this is how I see it.

I sincerely hope the matter picks up and that the region can get back onto it's feet, I really do.

[Spartan]

I don't see much difference between those who are creating a lawless environment there and are impeding the recovery efforts by shooting, mugging, raping and pillaging vs. those who would create terror in our nation.

Doesn't the actions of mugging, shooting, raping and pillaging as a member of an armed gang serve to create terror in those who may be stuck in the city and can't get out? In my view, there's no difference and those who are doing so should be shot on sight if they do not surrender when confronted with a member of an armed legal authority - police, US Army soldiers, National Guard, etc...

They are creating a state of war - civil unrest or whatever you want to call it. An environment in which lawlessness is pervasive and rules the day.

[rgrpuck]

Agreed sir, It is understandable that some acts of violence would happen. It is human nature. However in my opinion the reason it happened as fast as it did, was due to the inherent lawlessness that preexisited in the first place. N.O. has been nortorious for years.

As of now the news is reporting that N.O. is 90% NMC. The question is can the city be resurected ? I think that it will turn into a hole that money will be poured into for the rest of our lifetime.

The next question is...to what end? Will the result be worth it ?

Can Texas swallow the Influx of 100,000 people ?

Can our economy survive the long term effects? Or has this situation created an unrecoverable creeping cancer of our society?

-a two front war.
-a large swath of the south obliterated
-1/4 of our domestic oil production down untill WHEN ?
-I have heard a million displaced persons.
-and hurricane season has only just begun. We have awhile to go. The Government Estimate is 5 more this year.
-What an oppurtuity for our enemies.
-in my state there is concern of a partial shut down of public trans.
-School systems are worried about running busses.

Things I have thought of this morning.


Dropping a nuke would have done less damage.

Dont get we wrong VAK I am not trying to be argumentitive. However there are second and third order of effects that are VERY far reaching that concern me.

I think I will go home and load magazines.

N.O. is notoriously corrupt. and now you see the result of years of corruption.

While I am not going to pretend that the PD's above reproach, they have worked to clean themselves up over the past 10 years. Not to mention the FBI's efforts. Besides, I don't see condemning the police for the actions for gang banging pieces of shit, who make a clear decision to take their murdurous, rapist, looting onto a franchise level...

The media's been villifying everyone from the President on down to the lowest patrolman in the street while offering excuses for why these incidents happen. Back to the same old, disenfranchised, poor economic, what the fuckever. Normally I would debate this issue all to hell and back. But the knife wound on my back and the bullet scar in my stomach from my days working the ghetto tell me a bit different. This is simply criminals seizing an opportunity. Just like the King Riots. Fuck them, kill each one of them before the bring the situation to chaos.

[Southern_Brit]

rgrpuck: Dropping a nuke would have done less damage.

[jsmurphy]

http://www.zippyvideos.com/891102377101 ... in-walmart

WTF, Over ???

[rgrpuck]

rgrpuck: Dropping a nuke would have done less damage.

4 States are effected.....90 thousand square miles. Thats a big fuckin area. Whole towns in Mississippi dont exist anymore. Someone correct me if I am wrong but there are more troops deploying to La. than are currently in Afghanistan.

So yeah in the terms of material loss I would say a nuke would have done less. It would have killed more. But nobody knows how many are dead in La. yet. The land would have been unusable for awhile. But last I cheaked Hiroshima is a rather large city to this day.