Georgian troops battle for separatist capital

[Chiron]

What this side of the world is saying.

Saakasvili took the gamble at attacking South Ossetia, which only has a 1/3 Georgian population. Note that the 2/3 population want either total independence or to join with Russia. He was under the impression that the U.S.A. will support him in taking this southern province, which is also a key player along with North Ossetia in the oil pipeline to Europe. This entire issue has Ukraine looking and thinking that joining NATO is a mistake as there will be no support when the Russians call their bluff.

Russia has won this war already as Georgian troops have been running since yesterday. The cease-fire is not an actual one as the Russian orders are those if you see enemy soldiers or aircraft attack them. What the Russians have succeeded in doing is taking everything from Snenaki just south of Abkhazia to outside of Gori just south of S. Ossetia. In effect cutting Georgia in two and taking the only highway going west to east. They insist that Shaakasvili step down and refuse to talk to him.

This move by Saakasvili may cause havoc in Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabak. North and South Ossetia are the junction points of all the oil and natural gas pipelines coming from the Caspian towards the west.

In all seriousness my opinion is that Georgia played a card that will end Saakasvili’s presidency and may have in effect caused Russia to show all the rest of the ex-Soviet satellites that Russia will not bluff when it comes to the NATO eastern push. Personally I don’t understand why NATO is pushing east. A move that may cause more trouble than good.

The POTUS G.W. Bush made a statement on TV that was heard all over the world that is not correct. Russia didn’t invade Georgia but Georgia invaded South Ossetia, which has a 2/3 population that wants Russia, and Russia counter attacked the Georgians.

I still don’t understand why Saakasvili did this, as it’s pure suicide.

Most say that this new war is linked to the NATO push east something that to me is wrong and I know that the Russians will not play games with this.

[Chiron]

Most say that this new war is linked to the NATO push east something that to me is wrong and I know that the Russians will not play games with this.

One other issue. The near miss by Russian jets on the oil pipeline to me was just a warning.

[Looon]

Most say that this new war is linked to the NATO push east something that to me is wrong and I know that the Russians will not play games with this.

One other issue. The near miss by Russian jets on the oil pipeline to me was just a warning.

I think that the pipeline has alot to do with this mess. Russia is pissed that they are 'out of the loop'. They already supply most of the energy (oil, natural gas etc...) to Europe. They want to control it all. If they are able to gain control of Georgia, they WILL control it all. If they can't, they will probably destroy the pipeline.

[rgrokelley]

Personally I don’t understand why NATO is pushing east. A move that may cause more trouble than good.

Even though Putin is a closet Kruschev, I've wondered that too. We came close with NATO almost fighting the Russians in Kosovo and Bosnia. If Georgia does become part of NATO, or the Ukraine, and then Russia attacks, what then? If NATO doesn't do shit, Putin has called their bluff. If NATO does move, it starts a war the likes we have not seen in a half a century.

Alliances, like this shit, is what started World War I, which was one of the dumbest ways to start a huge war. Everyone was allied with each other, and everyone had to react or they would lose power on the world stage.

Keep it covert. Keep it sneaky. We don't need no alliances. We can do under the table stuff for years and give Putin a bloody nose (and a lighter wallet).

Or we can back the hell off and let the Europeans handle their own dirty laundry. Why must we be the only "good guys" left on the planet. I know, there is the domino effect in every argument for it, but I think it would be most interesting if our one main enemy, Islamic facists, bumped Putin at the south side of Georgia. It may keep them all busy for years.

[Rock Island Ranger]

Whether Georgia started this or not, the problem I see is, when do we intervene? If Russia invades Ukraine do we say it's not worth going to war over The Ukraine? Norway? Latvia? If we keep turning a blind eye to these things what initiative will these countries have to be our Allie?

They need to be smarter and not attack Russia's Allie to start with, many officials, former Generals were saying Russian forces were all ready to go when Georgia attacked Ossetia. There's no way they just happened to have that many tanks ready to go at a moments notice. It had to have been planned.

Both you and OK make good points. The only deterant we had for Russia was the presense of soldiers and nukes on their back door during the cold war. Not to mention, there was the willingness to use them. Now? Its not a bad thing for those who yelled the loudest at us to shoulder the burden now and us stay completely out of it. GERMANY???? FRANCE!!!!!!! We get all fucking indignant when Russia calls us bad boys when we invade another country (which we have done with some regularity) and when they attack someone we do the same shit. Maybe a good idea to let Europe wash their own laundry while we sharpen our sword.

[Chiron]

Whether Georgia started this or not, the problem I see is, when do we intervene? If Russia invades Ukraine do we say it's not worth going to war over The Ukraine? Norway? Latvia? If we keep turning a blind eye to these things what initiative will these countries have to be our Allie?

They need to be smarter and not attack Russia's Allie to start with, many officials, former Generals were saying Russian forces were all ready to go when Georgia attacked Ossetia. There's no way they just happened to have that many tanks ready to go at a moments notice. It had to have been planned.

To be or not to be or as most of us would put it B-2 or not B-2!

If we stay out, and it’s too late for that, as we have called Russia “the bad guyâ€