The Counter-ACLU...

[Silverback]

I used to be pro-capital punishment. My beliefs have changed over the years for a couple of reasons.

1) Too many times in recent history have convictions been overturned due to DNA exoneration. I don't know about you but if my ass was sitting on death row for a crime I didn't commit, I'd be a little tweaked.

And we now know that "Eye witness" testimony is unreliable at best. I've said it prior to this conversation it is cheaper to warehouse them for the remainder of their lives than it is to execute a person.

[RangerX]

I used to be pro-capital punishment. My beliefs have changed over the years for a couple of reasons.

1) Too many times in recent history have convictions been overturned due to DNA exoneration. I don't know about you but if my ass was sitting on death row for a crime I didn't commit, I'd be a little tweaked.

And we now know that "Eye witness" testimony is unreliable at best. I've said it prior to this conversation it is cheaper to warehouse them for the remainder of their lives than it is to execute a person.

Considering the costs of the appeal process.....

I am also in favor of prison being a punishment, not a rehabilitation facility. too much touchy feely bullshit. it should suck, period.

On another prison related note, I recently read that 16 percent of all prisoners are mental health cases. Close down the asylums, fill up the prisons.

Also, around 30% are for non-violent drug offenses.

[Silverback]

I am also in favor of prison being a punishment, not a rehabilitation facility. too much touchy feely bullshit. it should suck, period.

On another prison related note, I recently read that 16 percent of all prisoners are mental health cases. Close down the asylums, fill up the prisons.

Also, around 30% are for non-violent drug offenses.

I am 200% with you on this. It should be a place where criminals dread to go! Maybe an Island or something very primitive...You wanna' eat criminal? Start foraging!

[BadMuther]

Ever notice how "falsely accused" people are usually multiple convicted felons? I don't get too worked up if one got wrongly convicted of the one they didn't do, when they probably didn't get caught for 20 other crimes.

Considering how rare it is for the state to put someone to death, what is the statistical chance that an innocent person is put to death? .0000006%? Just asking.


My other problem with it is the same people who have no problem killing millions of innocent babies think we should all shed a tear over some scumbag like "tookie" williams.

[LEROY]

I used to be pro-capital punishment. My beliefs have changed over the years for a couple of reasons.

1) Too many times in recent history have convictions been overturned due to DNA exoneration. I don't know about you but if my ass was sitting on death row for a crime I didn't commit, I'd be a little tweaked.

And we now know that "Eye witness" testimony is unreliable at best. I've said it prior to this conversation it is cheaper to warehouse them for the remainder of their lives than it is to execute a person.

Considering the costs of the appeal process.....

I am also in favor of prison being a punishment, not a rehabilitation facility. too much touchy feely bullshit. it should suck, period.

On another prison related note, I recently read that 16 percent of all prisoners are mental health cases. Close down the asylums, fill up the prisons.

Also, around 30% are for non-violent drug offenses.

What they don't tell you, or what doesn't show up in these stats, is that these people usually get caught with several other offenses. Example: You have already commited a felony in your life. You get busted with an ounce of marijuana and a firearm. You plead to the marijuana charge and they drop the weapons charge. The kicker is you have to do full punishment for the marijuana charge.

[BadMuther]

I wish they were all run like the way that Sheriff Arapaio (sp?) in Az runs his jails.

BTW BM, Tookie wrote a children's book

I read Tookie's book. (not the kids one!) He is/was an unrepentant criminal who brags in his book about all the many, many crimes that he committed. Shootings, assault, robberies, etc.

Then I am supposed to believe that "Whitey" framed him and he was innocent??????? WTF??? I kept waiting in the book for him to apologize or say what he had done (the other crimes) were wrong. Nope.

[BadMuther]

I can honestly say that is the most PATHETIC defense of capital punishment I have ever heard! Would you feel the same way if it were your mother, father, or one of your children?

I am gonna go out on a limb here SB and suggest that your mother, father, or one of your children have not and will not find themselves in that particular situation.

I used to be pro-capital punishment. My beliefs have changed over the years for a couple of reasons.

I don't know about you but if my ass was sitting on death row for a crime I didn't commit, I'd be a little tweaked.

Once again, you’re a sick fuck X, but I’d wager against you finding yourself there.

It appears that most inmates, rightfully or wrongfully convicted, tend to be shit head criminals that put themselves in questionable situations. I don’t think many random citizen grandmothers have been picked off the streets of Yourtown USA and convicted of a capital offense.

Am I saying “fuck em! They’re probably guilty of something!”??? Maybe in some cases………..

Would that be wrong? Maybe.

Do I care if that is wrong? Maybe not.

However, I would not intentionally put somebody away knowing of their innocence.

Great post. More eloquent version of what I was trying to say!

[RangerX]

Once again, you’re a sick fuck X, but I’d wager against you finding yourself there.

Hey now, what are you trying to say?!? I could post a link to defend my "innocence".....

It appears that most inmates, rightfully or wrongfully convicted, tend to be shit head criminals that put themselves in questionable situations. I don’t think many random citizen grandmothers have been picked off the streets of Yourtown USA and convicted of a capital offense.

Am I saying “fuck em! They’re probably guilty of something!”??? Maybe in some cases………..

Would that be wrong? Maybe.

Do I care if that is wrong? Maybe not.

However, I would not intentionally put somebody away knowing of their innocence.

I wouldn't presume that any law enforcement officer would want to put an innocent man in prison, however there have been more than a few over zealous DAs & ADAs out there that will do anything to get in the headlines.

Last time I checked, Illinois alone had exonerated 13 death row inmates either by DNA evidence or recanted witness testimony. check http://www.innocenceproject.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for more around the country.

There was an article in Parade this past weekend talking about the incarceration rate in this country. We have the highest in the world. Something is seriously wrong with that.

[RangerX]

You read Parade Mag?!!?!?? I hear they also had a fantastic article on skin care and another regarding ER’s hottest stars! Did the “Prison” article mention the percentage of illegals incarcerated by chance? Remove people that don’t belong in our country to begin with and perhaps the numbers might better please you? :)

Hey now, don't be hatin'.

No they didn't mention illegals. If my local municipalities are any indication, then there shouldn't be that many in jail anyway.....

[smokn38]

The problem is the possibility of killing an innocent person. It's happened before.

We've probably locked up innocent people before and allowed them to die in prison doing their life sentence. Other then a expedited death what is the difference.

I can honestly say that is the most PATHETIC defense of capital punishment I have ever heard! Would you feel the same way if it were your mother, father, or one of your children?

It's not a defense of capital punishment. No capital punishment where I live. It was a question. A life sentence is just that your there until you die. I would be just as upset with executing someone that was innocent as I would sending someone to prison for life that was innocent. So if the system screwed them, evidence was withheld, witnesses tampered with, DNA samples flushed its wrong period, life or death. Having been a part of sending someone to prison for the rest of their life on a purely circumstantial case, no weapon, no cooperation, no smoking gun, I understand the fine line, I had to look myself in the mirror and know I did what was right with the information that had been developed.

Am I pro capital punishment, yes. Am I for innocent people getting executed, nope. I'm even against innocent people getting locked up period for crimes they did not commit.