Sobriety tests

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centermass
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Post by centermass »

wellfed wrote:I'll let centermass answer the majority and mostly correct answer, but here's my version. The police intial have to have probable cause to pull you over i.e. swerving, failure to stay right of line (for you it would be left) Once pulled over, The police have to have probable cause to arrest you and charge you with driving while intoxicated. They perform these series of test to get probable cause to conduct the arrest. Once arrested they give the breatherlizer and the results are similar to yours. I hope I explained it easy enough, and most of all correctly. I'm sure if I'm not right someone will let me know. :?
Hell,

I completely missed this one. Several points have been made. I'll make my first. IF YOU DRINK, DO IT AT HOME. STAY OFF THE ROADS AND STAY IN YOUR LIVING ROOM.

Now, with that said, if everyone did that, there would be no need for checkpoints, Interdiction Teams, DWI/DUI Task Force, Officers Checklist indicators for drivers possibly intoxicated or impaired, SFST's (Standardized Field Sobriety Tests) or intoxilyzer equipment.

Each state has laws or statutes which may vary to some degree, but in essence are similar and written into legislation for one reason: past tragedies.

Wellfed is essentially correct, except preliminary factors are usually considered as reasonable suspicion as Lawdog stated, to justify a vehicle stop. This is not a factor at lawful checkpoints.

Once a stop has been made, there may be variables and indicators utilized in what is considered probable cause (follow up from reasonable suspicion) to effect an arrest. And in most states, it is still considered belief until several litmus tests have been performed to establish impairment.

I'm not going into intricate detail so someone will have knowledge aforethought to mount a defense, but some I will address. Everyone sees it performed, but no one really understands it. Lawdog hit on it as well. This is one that I have an ax to grind with.

The Horizontal Gaze Nystagnus (HGN) most of you have seen on COPS or other shows is generally performed poorly or incorrectly. Nystagmus is an involuntary jerking or bouncing of the eyeball that occurs when there is a disturbance of the vestibular (inner ear) system or the oculomotor control of the eye.

Horizontal jerking occurs when the eye gazes to the side. In the impaired driving context, alcohol consumption or consumption of certain other central nervous system depressants which hinders the ability of the brain to correctly control eye muscles, therefore causing the jerk or bounce associated with HGN.

As the degree of impairment becomes greater, the jerking or bouncing, i.e. the nystagmus, becomes more pronounced. The subject is usually unaware when their pupil begins to bounce once it reaches its outer periphery, but the officer will see it. He is looking for several things:
lack of smooth pursuit, obvious and distinct nystagmus at maximum deviation (this is also referred to as "end-point" nystagmus) along with the angle of onset of nystagmus prior to 45 degrees.

It is only an indicator and does not stand by itself to convict someone, let alone arrest someone. And yes Thursday, there are always exceptions. But, like Lawdog, I have yet to arrest anyone who had this condition, let alone could use this as part of their defense.

SFST's or FST's are also used to gauge and establish any impairment or level of impairment in conjunction with all that has been established so far.

There are also handheld field testing units that an officer may have you blow in while out during the stop. Most courts have established that the results from these devices are not admissible as stand alone evidence to convict.

But they have also been shown to be admissible as another indicator in an officers ability to show and determine impairment.

Put all these things together along with others (asleep at the wheel and in control of a motor vehicle at an intersection while traffic light cycles several times) open containers, events video recorded, and then maybe, you get to take the ride.

In this state, the Intoxilyzer 5000 is used and admissible as establishing a persons blood alcohol content (BAC). Keep in mind these machines require an operator who is trained extensively on it's use and proper employment. It must be maintained and calibrated in accordance with established procedures and standards.

This is not the only one used in this country, it is only one of several. Regardless of where you're at and what's used, it's a safe bet if it is used and accepted, it is because it has been challenged and proven to be reliable and accurate, and upheld in the courts as such.

What happens to you if you refuse depends on what state you live in. I'm not even going to get into that.

VAK hit the nail on the head when it comes down to what officers in the real world have to deal with constantly. It sucks.

Lawyers have their place. But, for the most part, they are the reason officer training is so extensive and repetitive as to the competency of an officers ability to evaluate, administer or conduct any of the above, coupled with their ability to testify in court and articulate the totality of all the circumstances and weight of the evidence involved.

It's a bitch when I sit there in court, knowing full well one of my other brothers has a defendant about to get off the hook on a technicality or a loophole. Yeah, it happens and unfortunately, when it does, statistics show this individual will probably be out there again doing the same.

But it's even more of a bitch knowing that this person has the potential to make someone a widow, widower, fatherless, motherless, childless etc. later on down the road.

The final 2 points I'll make is it all boils down to an officers training. It's their competency, understanding of the laws, committment to fairness, upholding the law and caring about what they're doing.

As VAK stated, recertification as become a way of life in Law Enforcement. As tedious or repetitive as it gets, this is for your benefit so the officer that some of ya'll love and respect so much :roll: gets it right.

And when they do, it will uphold itself in a court of law and will become adjudicated in the dockets of who gets their just due when all is said and done.

The last is "it depends." These 2 little words make for what is known as the infinite variable when asking a "simple question" pertaining to the law.

So,

You want to be a COP, do ya? :wink:



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Post by Chiron »

In Greece they pull you over to check documents and while they’re at it
they may ask you to blow in the machine. There is no probable cause thingy here.

They just assume everyone is drunk. :roll:
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Post by Chiron »

Oh and if your're out Saturday night well they assume you're drunk.
Kinda like guilty until proven innocent.
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Re: ,

Post by centermass »

Chiron wrote:Oh and if your're out Saturday night well they assume you're drunk.
Kinda like guilty until proven innocent.
Wouldn't have anything to do with this, would it????

:lol: :lol:
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Re: ,

Post by Chiron »

centermass wrote:
Chiron wrote:Oh and if your're out Saturday night well they assume you're drunk.
Kinda like guilty until proven innocent.
Wouldn't have anything to do with this, would it????

:lol: :lol:
That and the fact that "Bouzookies" close when the sun comes up. Those are the night clubs where women like to dance on the tables.

Also this year is the first year that Greece has a minimum drinking age of 18. Before that well you can imagine. We have the highest teenage drinking problem in Europe and the highest mortality rate on the highways in Europe. In 15 years I have see some crazy shit over here.

Aside from that the parties on the islands in the summer are great.. 8)
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Post by wellfed »

CENTERMASS! WTF! That picture of uozo brings back Nightmares! Make it go away!
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Post by Southern_Brit »

Ouzo.... :( Uurgggh! I can still taste it!!!
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Re: ,

Post by Southern_Brit »

Chiron wrote:
centermass wrote:
Chiron wrote:Oh and if your're out Saturday night well they assume you're drunk.
Kinda like guilty until proven innocent.
Wouldn't have anything to do with this, would it????

:lol: :lol:
That and the fact that "Bouzookies" close when the sun comes up. Those are the night clubs where women like to dance on the tables.

Also this year is the first year that Greece has a minimum drinking age of 18. Before that well you can imagine. We have the highest teenage drinking problem in Europe and the highest mortality rate on the highways in Europe. In 15 years I have see some crazy shit over here.

Aside from that the parties on the islands in the summer are great.. 8)


You want to see the problems here! :evil:
I know it's not a competition, but our teenagers (the little shits!) have the highest drink and drug problem in Europe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4094183.stm
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Re: ,

Post by Chiron »

Southern_Brit wrote:
Chiron wrote:
centermass wrote: Wouldn't have anything to do with this, would it????

:lol: :lol:
That and the fact that "Bouzookies" close when the sun comes up. Those are the night clubs where women like to dance on the tables.

Also this year is the first year that Greece has a minimum drinking age of 18. Before that well you can imagine. We have the highest teenage drinking problem in Europe and the highest mortality rate on the highways in Europe. In 15 years I have see some crazy shit over here.

Aside from that the parties on the islands in the summer are great.. 8)


You want to see the problems here! :evil:
I know it's not a competition, but our teenagers (the little shits!) have the highest drink and drug problem in Europe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4094183.stm
Maybe, also Greece is very low on the drug use. The issue with drinking is very high in Greece. If Greek kids arn't the #1 abusers of alchohol they would be up there in the top 3. We are close but have not had the drug problem though.
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Post by AbnRgr289 »

Damn, what did you do CM, scan the book? :shock:

I guess you were bored.
Southern_Brit wrote:Ouzo.... Uurgggh! :( I can still taste it!!!
Before or after it came up? :mrgreen:
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Post by Chiron »

AbnRgr289 wrote:Damn, what did you do CM, scan the book? :shock:

I guess you were bored.
Southern_Brit wrote:Ouzo.... Uurgggh! :( I can still taste it!!!
Before or after it came up? :mrgreen:
I love OUZO! It's best at mid day with a seafood light lunch (octapus salad...). Then there is
the mooshine ouzo called TSIPOURO! That shit will grow hair in your palms. :lol:
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Post by chkray »

When I drive drunk, I find it helps if I drive really fast. That way I get home before the cops even realize I'm on the road!

Works like a charm!!

:D
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centermass
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Post by centermass »

chkray wrote:When I drive drunk, I find it helps if I drive really fast. That way I get home before the cops even realize I'm on the road!

Works like a charm!!

:D
Figures. Only in 5-0 land. :roll:
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Post by VAK »

Centermass, that post at the top was phenomenal...

Good job.

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Post by KW Driver »

my commander fucked up once and let me give a weekend safty brief cause I bet her I could do it faster than her. went something like this:

ok, if ya drink don't drive, if ya drive don't drink. if you drink and drive you could hit a bump and spill your drink and that's alcohol abuse, but that's ok cause the army has programs for that. if you're in a boat, don't drink, if you're fishin' have a driver cause ya can't fish without beer, it's the law. If you are gunna drink and drive, drive drive fast, because speed is security and it'll limit your exposure time. If you're riding a bike, wear your shit and don't be stupid, cause I've hit my quota on memorial services this quarter and won't go to yours. If you swim wear a condom and if you fuck take a buddy. now CW2 ****** (unit safety officer) will discuss some of the points I've covered.

commander said it was the last safety brief I got to give...
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