Introduction- Matt

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Hutch
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Joined: December 11th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Introduction- Matt

Post by Hutch »

Hello Rangers,
My name is Matt and I am currently a sophomore in college. I am considering the possibility of military service after I graduate, and am hoping that I can get some guidance and advice on this website. Since I was a little kid I always wanted to be in the military. At first I wanted to be a fighter pilot, and I was really into airplanes and helicopters. I had a distant relative (married into the family, so he isn't actually blood-related) who used to fly B2's and his father was a fighter pilot in Vietnam who went on to become a General, so I really looked up to him and got a lot of guidance from him. As I got older, I started changing my mind on the fighter pilot idea and started thinking about the infantry. I liked the Army Rangers more than any other infantry force. Well, when I was a senior in high school and it came time to seriously think about military service, I started to wonder whether it was really the right path for me. I decided that either way, I would definitely be going to college first anyway so I kind of put my decision on hold. But now I feel that it is time to seriously think about this decision. What made me originally start second guessing my choice to serve was the fact that I was worried that my reasons for wanting to join the military were the wrong ones. In short, I was a kid and I was immature--I just wanted to be a badass; I wanted adventure. I figured that it was just teenage testosterone, but now I'm 20 and that hasn't changed. I still daydream about joining the military and I see a lot of benefits to it. So after continually thinking about this decision, I came to this conclusion. If I join the military, I have two options: I will either enlist with an Option 40 contract and try to get to the Ranger Regiment, or I will go through OCS and try to get a commission. If I do join, I doubt I will be in for more than 8 years. I do plan to have a career in the civilian world afterwards. Right now I am studying business. So that's the reason I am considering OCS, I figured that being an officer and a leader would be very beneficial to me when I get into the business world after the military. But that's really the main reason I am considering OCS--the leadership. And that's the main thing I want to get advice on from this forum--whether I would be better off going through OCS or if enlistment would be my best option. I apologize for my long introduction, but I feel as though I should give my reasons for being here in context.

Thanks,
Matt
Hutch
Embryo
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Joined: December 11th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by Hutch »

Well, I did consider ROTC and I almost did join but when the time came to make the decision I just wasn't 100% sure and so I decided that I wasn't going to do it if I wasn't 100% committed. Part of the reason was because I wasn't 100% sure that I wanted to join the military, and even if I was I was not sure whether I wanted to enlist or get commissioned. Up until recently I thought I made the right decision. Honestly, I thought that my desires to join the military were just testosterone-driven immaturity and I thought that I would grow out of it. My main desires were for adventure, challenge, and honor. I wanted to put myself to the ultimate test, I wanted to do something adventurous and exciting, and I just wanted to be a badass. Nothing out of the norm for an ambitious teenager. But at the time I realized that those reasons are not the right ones, and I realized that I was not mature enough to make the decision. But now I'm older and more mature, and I'm still daydreaming about the military. Part of me still wants the adventure, the challenge, and the glory but there's more to it than that. I think the military will make me a stronger individual, it will show me what my full potential is, and it is a noble thing to do. I want to do my duty for the people of my country, for all the other people out there laying all on the line. As long as there are good people out there fighting and dying in my name, I need to be a part of it. So I told myself that if, by the time I am a senior, I still have these desires and have not changed my mind, I'm going to join. If I do want to go the officer route, then OCS will get me to the same place as ROTC but I'll still be able to have a normal college life. And I was told that people who go through OCS must serve 3-4 years active duty and then 4-5 more years in the reserves, whereas OCS candidates only have to commit to 3 years active duty. I have no desire to be in the reserves at any point. If I join I will join active duty, probably for the minimum commitment, and at the end of that enlistment/commission, then I will decide whether or not I want to sign up for more.
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adckse
Ranger
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Joined: September 30th, 2010, 7:53 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by adckse »

Matt,
It seems you have a lot of soul searching still to do. If your intention is to use the military as a resume builder and it sounds like you are, at the same time fulfilling a desire to do what most dream of doing, then I would suggest a route that would benefit you in a career path that would enhance your network outside in the civilian world. In life the network of people and organizations that you create over time will most likely dictate the opportunities that arise as time goes on. I can tell you 100% that I would have not secured my career in the civilian world without the connections of being a former Ranger. Having said that, it is not given to you but earned. You get what you put in. You are already establishing a network through college, ie. fraternities, classmates, social groups etc... As the saying goes "Birds of the same feather flock together". I can only guarantee that if you live the life of a Ranger, a world of opportunities will open up to you that otherwise you would never see. Good-luck!

EOM
Attack co 2/75 RGR REG
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Ranger Class 5-95'
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Hutch
Embryo
Posts: 8
Joined: December 11th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by Hutch »

Rangers,
Thank you for the advice, I value your input greatly. I do still have some soul searching to do, I'm not sure what is right for me as of now and I don't want to make a decision this big unless I'm sure. If I do join the military, I want to make sure that I am 100% committed because it will become my life while I am in. A lot of the reason I began to consider OCS is the future benefits, I've heard a lot of stories about former military officers who go on to become very successful businessmen and I know that having that on your resume can be a huge advantage. I know that serving as an enlisted man in the 75th will give me great advantages as well, but will the advantages and things I learn as an enlisted man be equal to what I would get out of being an officer? I know that an enlisted soldier, especially a Ranger, has plenty of responsibilities but I want to become a leader.

Thanks,
Matt
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Terrence_87
Future Soldier
Posts: 38
Joined: November 12th, 2010, 2:43 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by Terrence_87 »

Hutch wrote:Rangers,
I know that an enlisted soldier, especially a Ranger, has plenty of responsibilities but I want to become a leader.
Every Ranger is picked because of his potential to be a leader. He is then trained to become a prominent leader, whether enlisted or officer. Thus, your "leadership" concerns shouldn't be concerns at all. All Rangers lead.

I'm not offering you advice about either option because I'm not qualified to speak on them. But I can give you a line that Ranger Elguapo gave to me about indecision:
Elguapo wrote: Take a step back, figure out exactly what it is you want,... sign the dotted line, grab your nuts and then jump wildly into the dark night.
Best advice I've gotten in a long time. I took his words and made a damn good decision.

Good luck,
-Terrence
KW Driver
Ranger/Moderator
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Introduction- Matt

Post by KW Driver »

While nothing Terrance said is nessisarilly wrong, he just got his card pulled for overstepping his boundaries. So you don't have to reply to him.

Reading what you've put up here, you have some deciding to do. But here's some rhetorical research for you: what's the requirements to Ranger and go OCS?

the key is, how different is it and what do you think it means. You have plenty of time to work out the path you want to take, and you're the only one to make it. But I'll tell you this, based on you looking for a minimum enlistment and out, you aren't ready to Ranger. You have to dedicate yourself to to it or you won't last. But you have plenty of time to figure things out.

And here's some free chicken, you could do the first two years of ROTC without obligation to test drive the system
A Co & HHC 3/75 '93-'98.
RS 10-94.


200 meters of green shit next to a river in the desert does not qualify as a "Crescent of Fertility" -me

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ABN509
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Joined: December 8th, 2010, 3:19 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by ABN509 »

Matt,

5 years ago I was in some what of the same position you are now. These Rangers have given you great advise and I hope you take it, unlike some of the others that have come on here talking about joining. I, myself, had 2 years of college when I seriously started thinking about joining the military. My first step was going to the ROTC commanders office and sitting down with him to discuss what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to be Airborne Infantry (I had a fraternity brother drop college and enlisted and went to the 82nd) and expressed that to the ROTC commander. He told me that the hardest MOS to get out of ROTC is Infantry (everyone wants to be Rambo) and Intel. This selection was based on GPA, PT scores and a 2 week course at the end of ROTC (or something like that, its been 5 years...). My PT was in the 280-300 range but my GPA wasnt good enough to put me into a range that would make me feel comfortable enough to make Infantry (remember I was in a fraternity, I was more worried about Friday nights party than my next test). Anyway, I decided my best course of action was to enlist 11x with an Airborne contract. I did my enlistment, got to do some hooah stuff along the way and got my GI Bill. Now, 3 years later, I have a Finance degree and an MBA and am getting on with my career just as you have expressed.

I guess I say all that to say.... When you are in Airborne school you have the opportunity to meet some Rangers in 3rd Batt. (I think I lived at that Subway by D Co. for 3 weeks). I never talked to or saw an experienced Ranger that only wanted to do 3 years and get out. Most of these guys had been in 6 years and that was their career. You dont just put yourself through the challenges that Rangers do to get in and get out. To me it is hard to comprehend busting ass to get to Ranger Battalion then busting ass times 10 while there, then going through Ranger school and a year or 2 later getting out.

My advise, FWIW, is graduate college, enlist as an E4, if you plan on getting a Masters then take the GI otherwise take the loan forgiveness, do your 3 years and come out with your head high proud of what you have done and start your career with no student loans. If you want a Masters then take classes while you are enlisted since the military will pay something like $250 a semester hour. Take an MOS that is going to help you in the long run. I felt Infantry would help me in the long run because of the valuable lessons about self confidence, determination and leadership that comes along with it.

Just my 2 cents...
Hutch
Embryo
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Joined: December 11th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by Hutch »

Ranger GTP and ABN,
I think I may have given the wrong impression on my reasons for joining. I do see military service as a tremendous advantage in any future pursuits I may have, but leadership skills and resume bolstering certainly aren't my main reasons for joining. I want the challenge, honor, excitement, and adventure. I want to put myself to the ultimate test and see what I can do. I want the sense of pride and accomplishment that comes with being one of the best soldiers in the world. I want to experience things and overcome challenges that the vast majority of the world could never do. And I want to do my duty to the other men and women who have made great sacrifices on my behalf. It's hard for me to articulate my exact feelings and thoughts on this, but hopefully that gives you at least some idea as to why I'm considering military service.

And as far as how long I plan on being in, I don't know for certain that it will be only the minimum 4 years. At this point I just can't say. If I join I will initially sign up for the minimum 4 years, and when those years are up then I will decide whether or not I want more. Who knows, maybe I join up and end up liking it enough to stay in for 20 years. Or maybe I serve for 4 years and decide that I'm ready to move on to other things. I just don't want to commit myself to 8 years now and then find out that I'm ready to get out after 4.

Thanks,
Matt
Hutch
Embryo
Posts: 8
Joined: December 11th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by Hutch »

Ranger GTP,
Point understood. I value your input, and the input of every other Ranger on here. I've browsed around on a couple other military forums before and the advice I received here is by far the best and most sincere. I've got a lot of thinking to do and a very big decision to make. If I decide to enlist with an option 40 contract, I will let everyone on here know because I will definitely need some help preparing. Once again, thanks to all you Rangers for the advice, it really is helpful especially coming from guys like yourselves.

Thanks,
Matt
Hutch
Embryo
Posts: 8
Joined: December 11th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by Hutch »

Rangers,
I have given some more thought to the enlist vs OCS debate, and though I haven't reached any real conclusions, I do have one question that relates to this debate somewhat. After thinking about the pros and cons of both options, one of the biggest pros for enlisting, at least for me, is that my chances of seeing combat are much greater, especially in the Ranger Regiment. So my question is concerning combat and how I should view it. If I had no desire at all to see combat, I would most likely take the OCS route. But I, like many other young men who have never experienced it, have a desire to be in combat. Honestly, I'd be kind of disappointed if I served in the military and never saw any combat. From a practical, rational perspective this sounds completely stupid. I'm no dumbass--I know that killing people and seeing others die would not be very fun. I've heard of very, very few men who have been in combat and liked it. I know that if and when I do see combat, I'll probably be scared shitless and I probably won't like it in the least bit. But no matter how much that makes sense, I still can't rationalize away my desire to see combat. Did any of you feel the way I did when you were my age? Did you grow out of it? And for those of you who have been in combat, what was the experience like? How did it affect you afterwards? Did you enjoy the rush, or did you hope and pray that you never had to do anything like that again? This is something I've grappled with for at least a few years but I've never actually talked to any combat veterans about it so I figured it is probably a good idea. It just seems so weird to me that I should have a desire to be involved in something that I know is destructive and horrible. But I feel like if I were in the infantry and didn't see combat, then I didn't really do my job--I didn't really do what I had trained so hard to prepare for. And beyond that, I am just curious about what its like. After all, combat is arguably the most extreme thing a man can be in. To me, it seems like its the ultimate test. In no other situation are your decisions and actions so critical, your adrenaline so high, etc. For those of you who are combat veterans, what are your thoughts on this from the perspective of a man who has been in combat?

Thanks,
Matt
Hutch
Embryo
Posts: 8
Joined: December 11th, 2010, 11:26 pm

Re: Introduction- Matt

Post by Hutch »

Rangers,
It has been a few weeks since I have posted on this website and I have been doing a lot of thinking. I have come to the conclusion that the officer route is the right one for me. Almost everything about it sounds more appealing to me, and I think that is where I would fit in best. So now the big decisions for me are: Army or...I know this may piss off some of you but...Marine Corps. And if Army, ROTC or OCS. I like the way OCS works more than ROTC, I like how you get it all done at once in a 24/7 environment rather than over the course of a couple years, but I figured I should at least look into ROTC since it is an option. The other bad thing about ROTC for me, though, is that I would have to give up my current summer job that I really like and make good money doing whereas if I went through OCS I would get 2 more summers of working at my job. And I would hate to have to tell my boss that I'm quitting now because I was planning on working there throughout college and I told him that.

For Army vs Marines, I'm really not sure. I'm convinced that neither service is "better" than the other, but I know that they do have differences and it is all a matter of where I would fit in better. If I go Army, and become an Infantry Officer, it sounds like I will most likely get to go to Airborne School and even Ranger School at some point. Also, the Army has more options for career advancement. Say I join the Army and after 4 years I decide that I want to stay in the Army. If that happens then I would probably try out for a Special Operations Force. The Army has the Rangers and Green Berets. The Marines do have MARSOC, but it isn't that big, not very well-established, and the Marine Corps just seems to be much less involved in SOCOM in general. So those are the big pluses I see for the Army, but one of the things that I worry about in the Army is that I would go through Airborne or Air Assault and then end up in a mechanized infantry division or something. I wouldn't like that. If I go through Airborne, I want to be in an Airborne division. But the needs of the Army are more important than my personal desires.

Now for the Marine Corps, there are a few reasons why I am considering it. I really like the way their OCS program works. It seems a lot more streamlined than the Army's, and I don't have to worry about West Point and ROTC cadets taking all the infantry slots before I even get the chance. In the Marine Corps I wouldn't get to jump out of planes, but I would get to do a lot of amphibious stuff. And as far as that goes, I'm not really sure. On the one hand, some of the amphibious stuff sounds pretty cool and being in a Marine Expeditionary Unit could be cool, but I don't know for sure. Part of me really likes the idea because I would get to travel around a lot and see a lot of different places, but then I also kinda worry about living on a ship for 6 months. Another plus for Marines is that they have shorter deployments. Now, don't get me wrong, I expect to deploy-hell, I want to deploy- but I figure that after 6-7 months on a deployment I'll be ready to get the hell out of there. But in the Army most deployments are twice as long from what I hear.

The main difference I see is this: do I want to try to jump out of planes or do I want to live on a ship and be around the water a lot? Well, I'm scared of heights so jumping out of planes would probably scare the shit out of me at first, but I'm confident that I can overcome that fear with training and experience. And for the Marines, I'm not really confident in the water but again, that's something that could be overcome with training and experience. Either way, I'm confident in my abilities to overcome either challenge. If my options were be in the Army and be in a mechanized infantry unit or something like that, I would probably choose the Marines. But if my options were between an Army Airborne unit and the Marines, I'm not sure--they both would give me some good challenges to overcome and they both would be pretty badass.

Sorry for the long, rambling post but I want to give you guys an idea of my thought process on this decision. Am I thinking about this all wrong? I'm just not sure how to go about making this decision because I feel I can't truly know which one is right without experiencing both and obviously I can't do that. Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated.
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