Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

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merlyn
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by merlyn »

Ranger KarlinPhoenix,
Thanks for the advice and website.
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by Flesh Thorn »

I did find myself in a situation one time where I had left my handgun in the vehicle. Tater Nuts and myself where headed to Texas the year before last and we had stopped near Baton Rouge off of I-10 for fuel. Tater was pumping gas and I went inside for a cup of coffee and to pay after he finished fueling. I left my Kimber in the van since there was hardly a person insight and you could clearly see into the store. One minute it was just the clerk and myself the next minute it is full of locals from the nearby ghetto. Being that I am from rural Appalachia, it probably appeared to me as more like Somalia minus the AK's than urban Louisiana. I was hoping that Tater Nuts was keeping an eye out for me as I had to pull out my wallet and dig out $50 in cash to pay for the fuel while a few of the patrons appeared to be eying me pretty hard. Fortunately, nothing happened, but if there was ever a time I probably should have been carrying cocked-n-locked this was it.
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Dan B 3/75
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by Dan B 3/75 »

Since the GWOT kicked off in all its glory...er...anyway, and all the damn sworn statements that came along with it, I have taken a much different approach to defense in general.

Like the Army maintenance plan, defense needs a "before, during, and after" approach to be as effective as possible. While most folks focus on the "during" aspect of defense, they fail to train on the "before" and "after" aspects and have a harder time than they should imo.

99.9% of the time, a soldier is trying to do the right thing out in sector, however, when the time comes to justify his actions on paper in the form of a sworn statement, if you didn't work WITH Joe, and had no knowledge of a particular sector, than more often than not, his statement would leave room for questions due to a lack of specificity as it pertained to the ROE. As a result, I would assume a similar role as a defense attorney would, and would help the stud out by talking to him about the event, and ensuring he provided specific details that would justify his actions beyond a shadow of doubt.

You'd probably be surprised how vague Joe can be...well, no, nevermind.

This stemmed from a failure to properly prepare before AND after an event, and directly applies to civilian defense. Knowing the ROE, like civil defense law, verbatim, or being able to recite the key legal aspects of the ROE verbatim, is crucial in not only understanding ROE, but being able to answer questions and prove your actions were keeping in accordance with ROE.

BEFORE the event....know the law AS WRITTEN in your state.

When can force be used? When can deadly force be used? What is the difference between the two? When must I stop using force? Is there a requirement to retreat? Are there special circumstances that go along with the use of force, such as day vs. night, castle doctrine? Can I use force to protect property?
What is a disparity of force and how does it apply to the use of force in defense? Do you have a commo plan to notify the authorities that will NOT incriminate you should the tape be used in court?

More often than not, soldiers would FAIL to use force when they SHOULD and COULD have due to a failure to properly prepare before the event and understand the ROE. On the civilian side, it seems to be the opposite, and folks use deadly force when they shouldn't, or continue to do so when they should have ceased. Not good, as good folks face charges they shouldn't because some shit bag interfered with THEIR lives.

AFTER the event...

While some would opt to say nothing to the cops, imo, that's not such a good idea. However, running your mouth WITHOUT a "post incident" plan or practice, is not a good idea either. Enough info needs to be given to the cops to show YOU are the victim, and YOU acted within the law to defend yourself. Like the reports we used in service, ie 9 line medevac, SALT, CFF, I carry a post incident card that can be used to give a report that provides enough detail to paint the picture, but not enough to incriminate myself by saying stupid shit. It includes key defensive terms and elements from the law that will allow you to state the facts using the same verbiage as written in the law. It reminds to ID witnesses and evidence, to sign a complaint against the aggressor, and when to shut your mouth. It also has the number of a bail bondsman buddy I know... :)


You've also got to be prepared for a legal and financial fight, and the repercussions you may suffer as a result of the media, employers, "friends" and family.

Whatever you do, just remember that you can and should train to handle your personal defense before AND after the actual event as well. The more you do, the better your chances of not getting attacked TWICE for the same event, ie, once by the attacker, and again by the court system.

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Bravo57
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by Bravo57 »

Guns are scary and bad
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mortar_guy78
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by mortar_guy78 »

I have been told be a few law enforcement types that when the fuzz shows up (that's right, I said fuzz) you should never say anything like "I shot him" or "I killed him". It should always begin with "He tried to KILL me (and/or my family)" Of course, you should keep stressing the fact that YOU are the victim and that YOU acted to defend yourself or others that you are authorized or obligated to protect.
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by IEDmagnet »

mortar_guy78 wrote:I have been told be a few law enforcement types that when the fuzz shows up (that's right, I said fuzz) you should never say anything like "I shot him" or "I killed him". It should always begin with "He tried to KILL me (and/or my family)" Of course, you should keep stressing the fact that YOU are the victim and that YOU acted to defend yourself or others that you are authorized or obligated to protect.

You just called the police "Fuzz"? That is almost as annoying as "Sport", "Pig", "Po-Po", "Scooter", or "Junior". (All of which I have attempted if not actually tased someone for). My feeling would be hurt if I had any there fellow Mortar Maggot. :lol:

As for the rest of it, I would agree. Understand that you are going to be Mirandized, you are probably going to be transported to a LEC somewhere, and it is never a bad idea to consult an attorney. It is your right...and any Porker worth his salt wouldn't get too pissed about you using it.

Yeah I just called myself a Porker! I'll also answer to Bacon, Blue, and "Holy shit the cops are here".
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KarlinPhoenix
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by KarlinPhoenix »

Dan B 3/75 wrote: Like the Army maintenance plan, defense needs a "before, during, and after" approach to be as effective as possible. While most folks focus on the "during" aspect of defense, they fail to train on the "before" and "after" aspects and have a harder time than they should imo.

More often than not, soldiers would FAIL to use force when they SHOULD and COULD have due to a failure to properly prepare before the event and understand the ROE. On the civilian side, it seems to be the opposite, and folks use deadly force when they shouldn't, or continue to do so when they should have ceased. Not good, as good folks face charges they shouldn't because some shit bag interfered with THEIR lives.

Many thanks for your Comment that provides some very important information about 'PLANNING'.

Pre-incident: Know the laws; know what you can do 'on demand' in regard to performance (can you draw from concealment in less than 1.5 sec.?) so
you do not over commit. Carry a cell phone always.

Incident: Do your best. :o Call the Law and DESCRIBE YOUR SELF (what you are wearing) ; you are the victim; preserve evidence (bad guy's gun/knife/screwdriver/ballbat).

When the Police arrive DO NOT HAVE A GUN IN YOUR HAND, if at all possible. Do not reach for a gun when the police are there unless it is very clear that they are not going to shoot you. Move very slowly when the time comes to show the pistol in your holster.



Know that the Police are going to take your pistol and ammo that is in the gun (good to have a spare gun of like model as a backup).

Post-incident: What IEDmagnet said. Have a Defense Attorney in mind, too. Lots of things to think about BEFORE an incident takes place, whether it is a shooting incident or just a bone-breaking/head-breaking incident in self-defence.

This thread has developed a good many useful comments that are instructive, both situational and food for thought.

RLTW,

Karl in Phoenix
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Ranger School Class 5-78

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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by DixieRat »

Bravo57 wrote:Guns are scary and bad
Which is exactly why I carry one.
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by RangerX »

Bravo57 wrote:Guns are scary and bad
You are right.

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Flesh Thorn
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by Flesh Thorn »

A unregistered throw away firearm may work too as long as you remember to wipe it down first. :D
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mortar_guy78
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by mortar_guy78 »

IEDmagnet wrote:
mortar_guy78 wrote:I have been told be a few law enforcement types that when the fuzz shows up (that's right, I said fuzz) you should never say anything like "I shot him" or "I killed him". It should always begin with "He tried to KILL me (and/or my family)" Of course, you should keep stressing the fact that YOU are the victim and that YOU acted to defend yourself or others that you are authorized or obligated to protect.

You just called the police "Fuzz"? That is almost as annoying as "Sport", "Pig", "Po-Po", "Scooter", or "Junior". (All of which I have attempted if not actually tased someone for). My feeling would be hurt if I had any there fellow Mortar Maggot. :lol:

I sometimes even refer to them as 5-0 or "the Man". :D

All joking aside, I have seriously considered the fact that law enforcement is probably one of the few jobs that I might actually find something fulfilling about after I retire. Someone has to keep looking after the sheep.

This is in spite of the fact that most police officers I dealt with as a kid (I grew up in a not so nice neighborhood) seemed to me to be bullies with guns. Then again my wife used to be an LEO, and she's pretty alright.
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by cams »

TC204 wrote:I carry randomly, although I shouldn't leave the house without it. When I work in a bad area I carry two, but now that I got a derringer make that three :wink:
So, how's the job in Chelsea treating you? :lol: :wink:
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by IEDmagnet »

mortar_guy78 wrote: All joking aside, I have seriously considered the fact that law enforcement is probably one of the few jobs that I might actually find something fulfilling about after I retire. Someone has to keep looking after the sheep.

This is in spite of the fact that most police officers I dealt with as a kid (I grew up in a not so nice neighborhood) seemed to me to be bullies with guns. Then again my wife used to be an LEO, and she's pretty alright.

Most of the ones I dealt with were pure bred cocksuckers. But they earned it honest. I try my best to be fair, but I am blunt too. One of those "If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....it must be a turkey. Err..uh..duck. Yeah" kind of guys.

You'll make a good one.
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by schibbs »

Never carried a thing for years, course I was younger and living in the Mts of Colo. Now having spent 3 yrs being a personal driver for a local businessman, catering to his many friends and clients I have found the need to be armed. I have had some real close calls with drunks and gang rejects and thankfully have managed to talk them down. I do now carry a knife at all times when driving and keep two tube socks with a ball of pennies rolled in duct tape always handy in the Limo. A weapon remains in the trunk in my emergency pack with 15 in the mag., nothing chambered. Hopefully it will remain their !
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merlyn
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Re: Who here carries a pistol for personal protection?

Post by merlyn »

Schibbs! :mrgreen:
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