Ranger school open to CS and CSS

Three phases and 62 days of hell. This section named in honor of MAJ John Whyte who was taken from us on 04/17/05.
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BattleBoar
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Post by BattleBoar »

Spartan wrote:That's probably a phenomenon of most board members having served in the Regiment, as compared to those who's claim to being a Ranger is that they are graduates of Ranger School.

In the end, I think there is far more life-long pride displayed among individuals who experienced several years of service in a Ranger Bn or the Regiment, than among those who are graduates of Ranger School.
Spartan, I recognize (and respect) that distinction, and I know I'm really just a guest here, but here's a bit of my perspective on the subject of Ranger-qualified leaders in a non-Ranger unit.

I'm about a week (+/-) away from my ten year anniversary of graduating Ranger School. In those ten years I've served in three different divisions as well as spending some substantial time training and leading IOBC lieutenants (part of my "no assigned weapon" time). In all of those jobs I've tried to live up to the Ranger Creed.

When I, as a Ranger-qualified guy, look across my formation, the guys that I know I can count on right off the bat are the ones wearing a tab over their shoulder sleeve insignia. If I go to another unit's AO, I'm more likely to talk to the Ranger in the group first. I'm saying that at first glance; of course, the longer you spend in a unit, the more you know about who you can really rely on and who you can't. My experience has been that a guy having the tab counts for a lot.

Just like anywhere, I suppose, there are those who went to Ranger school a long, long time ago (or maybe only just a year ago) for the wrong reasons and don't internalize the Ranger Creed. To me, they're just "wearing the tab." Maybe they've forgotten something along the way; maybe they never learned it.

"I accept the fact that as a Ranger, my country expects me to move further, faster, and fight harder than any other soldier." When "any other soldier" applies to most of the soldiers you're leading, you have to recognize your solemn obligation to be the best soldier in your squad, platoon, company. How do you do that? Well, if you've forgotten all else, you go back to the Ranger Creed. It's a six step reminder of what you're supposed to be.

You, of course, know all of this--not trying to preach to the choir. You've had the good fortune of serving in a unit where they don't let you forget it. I have not. No excuses for that, it's just not the path I took. Making an honest effort to live up to the Creed for the last decade is my claim to being a Ranger. Relative to that, the school was easy!

Silverback wrote:I don't think this will have too much effect, jesus we can't even get all the Infantry guys to go. What makes anyone think that all of a sudden Ranger school is going to flood with turds?
You're absolutely right. I constantly have had Soldiers tell me, "I really want to go to Ranger School." Apparently most of them have had different reactions from others before me. I'll offer to sign them up on the spot---the tune changes quickly. "...but I can't swim," or "...but I need to do [BNCOC, re-enlist, get some college credit, whatever] first." To me, that means they don't really want it.

So if you get some stud 96B (Intel Analyst) in a mech unit who wants to give it a shot, great. As long as the standards of the school don't change, then you've got a better trained leader when the TOC gets hit. But I agree with what I think I'm hearing here about the concern that these "other" MOSs show up unprepared and waste a slot that could have gone to some team leader in the 101st who got bumped because their unit doesn't get the same allocation as they used to.

For what it's worth.
BB
Last edited by BattleBoar on March 14th, 2005, 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Rock Island Ranger »

This wont change anything. In the end, Ranger School is still a leadership course and to tell the truth, I think more people should attend. There is a difference between Batt service and Tabbed soldiers and that too, is not worth the debate. Any soldier doing his job to the best of his ability is OK with me. If a soldier WANTS to go to Ranger School and can perform to standards...send him.
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Post by Chiron »

I read the first few post on this thread and thought, “If this means that RS standards will drop we’re dead.â€
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Post by Kilted Heathen »

Easy killer :D
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BattleBoar
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Post by BattleBoar »

Zaknafien wrote:Being a CS Soldier (96B, actually),
Wasn't calling you out, it was the first "non-combat arms" MOS that popped into my head from my HHC time.

Good luck at Ranger School!

Oh, and I got the new Army Times today "GRAB THE TAB" Easy as that, I guess. :roll:
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82D ABN DIV: B/3-505 PIR 95-97
2ID, Korea: HHC/1-503 (AASLT) 97-98
3ID, Benning: A/1-30 IN (M) 02-03 (Incl OIF), HHC/3/3 ID (M) 01-02, 03-04
All other periods, sadly including the present: No Assigned Weapon
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Post by Spartan »

I guess my point Battle Boar was that in the end, those who serve together in the 75th Ranger Regiment have this sort of life long pride in our brotherhood that draws us together long after the experience is over.

Certainly there is life long pride among any soldier who rises to the occassion and serves with excellence towards meeting the challenges presented during the time in which he serves.

I have not seen a brotherhood of the type of those who serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment evidenced among those who graduate Ranger School simply because they all serve in different units. Being a Ranger School graduate is more of an individual accomplishment and there is not, that I have seen, a 'brotherhood' as strong among Ranger School Graduates, as there is among those who serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment.
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BattleBoar
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Post by BattleBoar »

Spartan wrote:I guess my point Battle Boar was that in the end, those who serve together in the 75th Ranger Regiment have this sort of life long pride in our brotherhood that draws us together long after the experience is over.

Certainly there is life long pride among any soldier who rises to the occassion and serves with excellence towards meeting the challenges presented during the time in which he serves.

I have not seen a brotherhood of the type of those who serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment evidenced among those who graduate Ranger School simply because they all serve in different units. Being a Ranger School graduate is more of an individual accomplishment and there is not, that I have seen, a 'brotherhood' as strong among Ranger School Graduates, as there is among those who serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment.
Oh, I'll DEFINITELY agree with you there. A couple of units may come close in terms of pride and esprit, but none can match it. If I had a buck for every time I had to keep myself from smacking the shit out of a Soldier bad-mouthing his own unit....and that's in some damn good units.

If anything, I guess we're probably on the same page as far as guys who "got their shit" years and years ago and have been just mailing it in ever since, like 2 months of ancient history compensates for anything they might fall short on for the rest of their career. Long is the road and hard, when you actually give a damn about soldiering.

But, like I said, I know I'm a guest and in no position to preach, which was not my intent anyway. Thanks for the feedback.
Ranger Class 4-95
82D ABN DIV: B/3-505 PIR 95-97
2ID, Korea: HHC/1-503 (AASLT) 97-98
3ID, Benning: A/1-30 IN (M) 02-03 (Incl OIF), HHC/3/3 ID (M) 01-02, 03-04
All other periods, sadly including the present: No Assigned Weapon
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abnsigo012
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Post by abnsigo012 »

I think this new policy is a result of the CSA's Warrior Ethos. Every Soldier a Rifleman, and personally I agree with him. I agree with the previous Rangers who posted earlier that the standards of Ranger School must not drop in light of this new policy. If it doesn't, then this will only serve to benefit the Army as a whole. Ranger School is a leadership school. Some say the ultimate leadership school. Great leadership is the ultimate asset. Why not spread the leadership skills learned from Ranger School throughout every branch in the Army? Why not make our Army more lethal as a whole?

Of course there are those that'll go just to "wear the tab" as one put it earlier. I'm sure there are those who did that before as well. But I believe the vast majority who TRULY want it strive for it for the right reasons and it'll be those soldiers that succeed the most, irregardless of branch. Conversely, patch-finders or self-serving careerists who just want to pad their ERB/ORB are the ones who'll be the first to fail whether they are combat arms or not.

I do agree that CS/CSS should be required to go through some rigorous screening and/or training process, whether it be pre-Ranger or Infantry AIT or some equivalent. Only the cream of the CS/CSS crop should be allowed to go.

By the way...for what it's worth, a CS guy was an honor grad for class 4-05 which graduated 11 MAR.
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Post by Silverback »

abnsigo012 wrote:By the way...for what it's worth, a CS guy was an honor grad for class 4-05 which graduated 11 MAR.
You made a very solid statement until you brought this up. Would you like to veture a guess at how many Infantry men have been selected as Distinguished honor Graduate, Honor Graduate, and Leadership award recipients? So your final statement added nothing to the conversation!
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Post by Kilted Heathen »

What kind of fuckin' boots did he wear?
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Post by Parabellum »

Do you call people that are Airborne qualified in the 101st "Paratroopers"?
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Post by Parabellum »

abnsigo012 wrote:I

I do agree that CS/CSS should be required to go through some rigorous screening and/or training process, whether it be pre-Ranger or Infantry AIT or some equivalent. Only the cream of the CS/CSS crop should be allowed to go.

By the way...for what it's worth, a CS guy was an honor grad for class 4-05 which graduated 11 MAR.
You know where that CS guy went for his train up? 75th RANGER REGT. PRE-RANGER COURSE! He was trained by infantry squad leaders.
"We spoke to them in the only language they understood - the machine gun."

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