5 Mile Run Improvement

[DougS90]

Rangers,

I've searched all over the board and have found plenty of info for improving the 2mile APFT run, however, I've found almost no info for improving the 5 mile run time required in RASP. I can barely keep my times under the minimum standard of 40:00 across rolling roads, which is unacceptable to me. I've been running since '09, but I've been stuck on this plateau since the start of this year and have been very slow in making improvements.

Currently I'm running short intervals of 400yds x8, tempo runs of 2-3 miles the same evening, and "long" run days of 6-7 miles the next day. At least one day a week, I'll have a hill workout. I run 5 days a week, and my weekly mileage comes in between 25-30 miles.

Here's my average times (leaning towards the slowest; I'm not cherry picking my personal bests) for a few distances to give you all an idea of where I'm at as far as my running strength is concerned:
1/4 mile- 1:30
1/2 mile- 3:20
1 mile- 6:45
2 mile- 14:00 (not maxing the APFT; also needs improvement)
3 mile- 23:00
5 mile- 39:30

I was wondering what alterations I should make to my running regimen to focus on the 5 mile run? Should I add more mileage to my weekly total, increase my long run distances, do longer intervals, or shorter/more intense sprints like Ranger Silverback's Killer Sprint workout? How many hill workouts do I need?

Being 5'11'' 185lb, I'm not the ideal body type for an elite runner, but that's no excuse for just being able to meet the minimum. That will not slide by me, and it will surely not slide at RASP.

Any advice or workout suggestions are appreciated Rangers, thanks.

[Worldweaver]

This always worked for me:

Monday: 2 mile, fastest time
Tuesday: 3 mile, fastest time
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Off
Friday: 5 mile, fastest time
Saturday: Intervals
Sunday: Off

You should see improvement within 2 weeks. You should be able to take 2 min off your 39:30 time within a month.
Most important thing with running is pushing yourself. Stay out of your comfort zone.

RLTW

[r753gs9]

Stew Smith, former Navy SEAL has some good running programs. The 2 mile program worked well for me.

For 3-5 mile:
http://www.stewsmithptclub.com/3milerunningplan.pdf

For 1.5-2 mile:
http://www.stewsmithptclub.com/6weekrunningplan.pdf

[DougS90]

Thank you Ranger Worldweaver. I will be following that workout routine for the next month, and will post results.

[DougS90]

Rangers, I've been following Ranger Worldweaver's plan for the last two weeks, and here is an interim report of my progress thus far.

Week 1:
2mile - 13:59
3mile - 22:45
5mile- 39:48 (very poor finish, I found myself daydreaming about stupid crap thinking that my pace would magically keep me under the 40:00 mark. I was not pushing myself.)
Sprints - 8x400's - 6 between 1:20 and 1:30, two above 1:30.

Week 2:
2mile - 13:52
3mile - 22:15
5mile - 38:08 (Good improvement for me, my best was 36:44, but I'm getting back there)
Sprints - 8x400's All under 1:30.

Thanks for the plan, and most importantly reminding myself to push harder. If I'm not hurting to finish, then I'm not pushing myself, and will therefore never grow stronger. For the rest of the month, I would like to add to the mileage with other less intense runs throughout the week, and keep up the pace on the timed runs. I will update when finished.

[Edge]

Hey Doug,

What's your rest period between the intervals? I think I'm going to start using Ranger Worldweaver's program.

[DougS90]

I'm using 2:00 of rest in between intervals. I got that figure from the RAW (Ranger Athlete Warrior) program posted elsewhere. The program is obviously geared towards Rangers, but there's lots for us DEPers to learn from it. It recommends 1:30-3:00 rest, and I simply settled on an arbitrary 2 minutes.

[Edge]

Yeah I've looked through that program a few times on the benning website, thanks bro.

[boscounderfoot]

I'm not sure who decided that a rest between 400's was the correct method but they are completely wrong. Running is designed to improve cardiovascular endurance and stopping to rest is counterproductive. On top of that, quarter mile workouts will never get you any better at distance running so shitcan the short distance stuff and concentrate on what matters. Only distance running will help you improve on your times.
There is also the issue of your diet and sleeping patterns to consider, if your eating shit and not sleeping consistently, you can forget any real improvement. If you're drinking regularly, STOP! If you're smoking, STOP! Alcohol is extremely high in sugar and it fucks your system up. Keep your carb intake (processed sugars) below 100g per day from the crap like bread, pasta, rice, etc. Fruits are fine because those sugars don't have the negative effects on the body that the boxed crap on the market shelves has.
Also, the idea that taking three days off each week from running is a horrible method of improving those times. One or two days off per week max but on those days off, you need to substitute something aerobic like swimming, cycling, hiking or some other form of low impact cardio work.
The fact that you're the size you are means nothing. I am the same height as you but weigh ten pounds less and can still run 3 miles in under 18 minutes and my last 10k in Denver 6 weeks ago was 40:22. Add to that the fact that I am almost 47 years old and live at 5400 ft and you begin to see where that size logic falls flat on its face. I run five days each week and swim on those days that I don't run. I also cycle everywhere I need to go within a 5-mile radius of my home, which includes work. Everything is for distance, nothing less than four miles. My four mile day (1 each week) is on a loop that climbs 1200 ft in a little over a mile at the beginning, then about a mile of down-mountain followed by a fast gradual downhill on a forest road to the finish. Though this isn't a typical 4-mile distance, it breaks up the monotany of pounding pavement, which gets a little boring after a while.
You want fast times, you're going to need to work your ass off to get them.

[Worldweaver]

DougS90, Good job on the improvement. Keep after it and remember to always push yourself.

RLTW

[S0LiD SN4KE]

I'm not sure who decided that a rest between 400's was the correct method but they are completely wrong. Running is designed to improve cardiovascular endurance and stopping to rest is counterproductive. On top of that, quarter mile workouts will never get you any better at distance running so shitcan the short distance stuff and concentrate on what matters. Only distance running will help you improve on your times.
There is also the issue of your diet and sleeping patterns to consider, if your eating shit and not sleeping consistently, you can forget any real improvement. If you're drinking regularly, STOP! If you're smoking, STOP! Alcohol is extremely high in sugar and it fucks your system up. Keep your carb intake (processed sugars) below 100g per day from the crap like bread, pasta, rice, etc. Fruits are fine because those sugars don't have the negative effects on the body that the boxed crap on the market shelves has.
Also, the idea that taking three days off each week from running is a horrible method of improving those times. One or two days off per week max but on those days off, you need to substitute something aerobic like swimming, cycling, hiking or some other form of low impact cardio work.
The fact that you're the size you are means nothing. I am the same height as you but weigh ten pounds less and can still run 3 miles in under 18 minutes and my last 10k in Denver 6 weeks ago was 40:22. Add to that the fact that I am almost 47 years old and live at 5400 ft and you begin to see where that size logic falls flat on its face. I run five days each week and swim on those days that I don't run. I also cycle everywhere I need to go within a 5-mile radius of my home, which includes work. Everything is for distance, nothing less than four miles. My four mile day (1 each week) is on a loop that climbs 1200 ft in a little over a mile at the beginning, then about a mile of down-mountain followed by a fast gradual downhill on a forest road to the finish. Though this isn't a typical 4-mile distance, it breaks up the monotany of pounding pavement, which gets a little boring after a while.
You want fast times, you're going to need to work your ass off to get them.

Great advice Ranger boscounderfoot, but I was wondering about the foods...what if you're eating all natural/organic carbs such as whole wheat bread,pasta etc. I eat whole grain all natural peanut butter sandwhichs( has a lot of protien). My body type is small skinny, I'm only 5ft 9 inches and a qauter away from 10 inches and i'm only 142. I read online my bodytype is good for high carb intake though. Do you think I should change up my diet or do anything else?

[DougS90]

Rangers, as promised, here are the results after two more weeks:
Week 3:
I decided to try more long mileage days this week, starting with a 5 mile run along the hilliest road near my home (I live in Southeast OH, so that'll give you an idea of what passes for "hilly" around here, nothing like out west) I stayed under 40:00, which isn't terrible, considering my other times were on flat. I couldn't give a specific time, as I neglected to use my chrono on my watch, but it was only about 10-15 seconds under 40. I need to be doing much better before I ship, hills should not slow me down this much.

Additionally, I added an hour of trail running at a nice forested park. Lots of hills and rocky/overgrown trails to keep you aware of footwork. Most of the uphills are very steep (reach out and touch steep) so I practiced sprinting up, and recovering at the peak with a jogging pace. Vaulting over downed trees is fun too!

The rest of the week was spent doing sprints, as well as rucking/feet toughening. No testing for time during week 3, just a lot of hill work, sprints, and compounded mileage.

Week 4:
This week, being the month mark, I needed to go back and test. Monday I retested the 2 miler, did another trail run Tues, and rested Wed and Thurs, before testing the 5 miler today. Here's what I got:

2-Mile: 13:44 -My personal best so far (Still not happy until I max)
5-Mile: 37:44 -Still a minute or so from my best time, but I'm getting used to pushing myself more when I run.


Thanks to everyone who posted, especially Ranger Worldweaver and Ranger boscounderfoot. I will keep training relentlessly, I have a long ways until I feel I'll be "happy" with my times, but by then I will likely have set new goals. It's a never ending cycle of improvement.

Never stop pushing yourself, and never quit.

[WhiskeyRiver]

I concur with boscounderfoot. Sprints/intervals are good for any running that's under about twelve minutes. After that, you switch from anaerobic to aerobic endurance. I would say to limit intervals to one day a week, and do endurance runs for time, not distance, the other days. days that you're not running, you need to be doing some sort of aerobic activity, such as biking or swimming. It's OK to have a rest day, but have the rest day consist of light aerobic activity for about 20 minutes. My running improved markedly once I started running until I reached a time limit, like 60 minutes, instead of keeping to a set route or distance.

As far as nutrition goes, balance is the key. You need to have a good balance of HEALTHY carbs, fats and proteins. Your body can only hold something like 400-500 carb calories in the blood at a time (don't quote me on that figure), so loading up doesn't do anything for you. Yes, you could carb load, but it involves starving yourself of carbs for a few days, and that's not conducive to training, nor to events less than 90 minutes in length. Whole grains are alright to eat, but incorporate fruits and veggies all the same.

[Rigogonzalez]

Im currently struggling to take off time in my 5 mile run.
I weight 195 lbs at 5’8.

Today I ran 42:50 but I know the minimum is 40 and I dont want to go to my benning “barely” passing.
My two miles is at 13:38 so I dont worry about that.

Any tips? Im also trying to lose 15 lbs by February, I think that should help with my time also.

[BlueLiner]

Im currently struggling to take off time in my 5 mile run.
I weight 195 lbs at 5’8.

Today I ran 42:50 but I know the minimum is 40 and I dont want to go to my benning “barely” passing.
My two miles is at 13:38 so I dont worry about that.

Any tips? Im also trying to lose 15 lbs by February, I think that should help with my time also.

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