Proposal to award Purple Heart for psychological wounds

rgrokelley · Post by **rgrokelley** » May 14th, 2008, 10:00 am

WASHINGTON -- Centuries before Iraq and Afghanistan, George Washington created the Purple Heart to honor troops wounded in combat.

But with an increasing number of troops being diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, the modern military is debating an idea Gen. Washington never considered -- awarding one of the nation's top military citations to veterans with psychological wounds, not just physical ones.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates offered cautious support for such a change on a trip to a military base in Texas this month.

It's an interesting idea," Mr. Gates said in response to a question. "I think it is clearly something that needs to be looked at."

The Pentagon says it isn't formally considering a change in policy at this point, but Mr. Gates's comments sparked a heated debate on military blogs, message boards and email lists. The dispute reflects a broader question roiling the military: Can psychological traumas, no matter how debilitating, be considered equivalent to dismembering physical wounds?

Supporters of awarding the Purple Heart to veterans with PTSD believe the move would reduce the stigma that surrounds the disorder and spur more soldiers and Marines to seek help without fear of limiting their careers.

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Silverback · Post by **Silverback** » May 14th, 2008, 10:11 am

Bob Mackey wrote:The biggest difference, he says, is that some veterans may be diagnosed with PTSD even if they never saw combat or fought an enemy -- requirements, historically, for receiving a Purple Heart.

This is a MAJOR sticking point. Without proper planning and execution the Purple Heart could become "Just another ribbon". If this idea is to gain steam then the "No-shit standard" should be directly related to COMBAT (being shot at and returning fire). Not some bullshit "My Airborne instructor said I was fat" or "When I was at the range my PSG yelled at me and I pissed myself" PTSD claim.

EXAMPLE 2 actually happened in my platoon

rgrpuck · Post by **rgrpuck** » May 14th, 2008, 10:13 am

Silverback wrote:
Bob Mackey wrote:The biggest difference, he says, is that some veterans may be diagnosed with PTSD even if they never saw combat or fought an enemy -- requirements, historically, for receiving a Purple Heart.
This is a MAJOR sticking point. Without proper planning and execution the Purple Heart could become "Just another ribbon". If this idea is to gain steam then the "No-shit standard" should be directly related to COMBAT (being shot at and returning fire). Not some bullshit "My Airborne instructor said I was fat" or "When I was at the range my PSG yelled at me and I pissed myself" PTSD claim.

EXAMPLE 2 actually happened in my platoon

Ok that was funny.

This one will make the CAB look like an awsome award.

Rock Island Ranger · Post by **Rock Island Ranger** » May 14th, 2008, 10:21 am

Oh, this too, will die on the vine as certainly as Sheila Jackson Lee's efforts to award the CMH to the Astronauts who dies in the line of duty.

I am always amazed at the feel good well wishers wanting to do "something" that feels good to them and without due consideration of what they are actually doing. Another bad idea.

Ranger Bill · Post by **Ranger Bill** » May 14th, 2008, 11:40 am

Would this mean that a physically wounded man who is also treated for PTSD gets two awards of the Purple Heart? And do you get an award for every time you receive treatment? Lke the Air Medal, numerals will have to be used to show the number of awards?

RangerX · Post by **RangerX** » May 14th, 2008, 12:45 pm

I guess many of us would need to start carrying around bags of Purple Hearts for some of the mental traumas we have inflicted.

I think I'm going to go traumatize someone right now......

Looon · Post by **Looon** » May 14th, 2008, 2:37 pm

Bad, fucking stupid, idiotic idea

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » May 14th, 2008, 3:00 pm

RangerX wrote:I guess many of us would need to start carrying around bags of Purple Hearts for some of the mental traumas we have inflicted.

I think I'm going to go traumatize someone right now......

I need an opfund to "award" ribbons to all Privates who served under me.

Darksaga · Post by **Darksaga** » May 14th, 2008, 3:08 pm

Nomad wrote:
RangerX wrote:I guess many of us would need to start carrying around bags of Purple Hearts for some of the mental traumas we have inflicted.

I think I'm going to go traumatize someone right now......
I need an opfund to "award" ribbons to all Privates who served under me.

From the sound of it, Heathen's fund would bankrupt a few small nations.

Steadfast · Post by **Steadfast** » May 14th, 2008, 3:16 pm

For years in my VA a unauthorized patch with a soldier with a VN era boonie hat, head in hands with these words inscribed around the patch.

All wounds are not visible.

Edited to add: Since this idea is in a way a gray area I would not want to belittle the receiptents of such a prestigious award as the Purple Heart, they earned it.

I do not agree they get a Purple Heart.

Sleepy Doc · Post by **Sleepy Doc** » May 14th, 2008, 3:21 pm

There is no way in this life or any other that an award should be given for psychological trauma equating to wounds received in combat.

One of my friends in the National Guard got his Purple Heart from an AD while in Vietnam, but he also served on two tours with the 25th ID as a medic, and saw some serious shit.

This is complete bullshit! Yes, PTSD is a serious matter. Yes it can fuck you up permanently, but there is no way it is the same. My landlord's mother was the charge nurse in a major level one trauma center. She was diagnosed with PTSD for all of the fucked up shit she had to see and deal with, and is now on full disability and heavily medicated. Fuck, I'M starting to show signs of it from having to be nice to drunken college kids who clearly need a bitch-slap, but instead we have to take them to the hospital because they are too soused to walk. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I was given an award that said my PTSD was the same as someone who sustained injuries while engaging the enemy in combat.

Fuck that!

(A seperate award? Perhaps, but not a Purple Heart..)

BruteForce · Post by **BruteForce** » May 14th, 2008, 3:41 pm

This idea is equivalent to giving all kids a trophy just for participating in their sport, regardless of their contribution or success.

Bad idea and just another touchie-feelie, feel-good idea.

EvilCouch · Post by **EvilCouch** » May 14th, 2008, 5:59 pm

Psychological injuries are no joke, but there are far too many standards that have been dropped for awards. I've seen dudes get awarded CABs and CIBs for being vaguely in the same area as hostiles. I've seen dudes get awarded Bronze Stars despite never doing anything courageous. The Purple Heart doesn't need to become just another piece of metal and cloth.

BruteForce · Post by **BruteForce** » May 14th, 2008, 7:07 pm

EvilCouch wrote:Psychological injuries are no joke, but there are far too many standards that have been dropped for awards. I've seen dudes get awarded CABs and CIBs for being vaguely in the same area as hostiles. I've seen dudes get awarded Bronze Stars despite never doing anything courageous. The Purple Heart doesn't need to become just another piece of metal and cloth.

Agreed, PTSD is nothing to sneer at. I know several who continue to suffer the effects, but its also very easy to abuse that diagnosis (or fake it).