Introduction, (civilian)

[Jim]

Welcome...

[FIST TEAM LTR]

Welcome.
Tell him Good Luck.

[289sotherhalf]

Welcome.

[Glenn, MSG Ret.]

Good luck to your son. I hope he heals up OK. He'll have a bit of OSUT left to get in shape & at 19 he shouldn't have any trouble. My son broke his femur when he was 8 & as soon as the cast was off he did soccer for his grade school & started wrestling after that & when the season was over he went out for judo. No ill effects & only limped for a few weeks. Seems even at that early age he was Ranger material. 'Course at that time his old man was a 1SG & didn't put up with any malingering!

If you're gonna break any bones 20 & younger is a good age.

Welcome to the site & keep us posted.

Glenn.

[42L5V]

Sir,

Having been a former Drill Sergeant, and a former Basic Training 1SG - I've encountered similar situations as to what you describe, albeit on the other end. (I've received recycled soldiers from other units who were amazed at the pace we maintained and the efforts we put into our training.)

It is always difficult for the second or third set of leaders to measure up to the first, especially in the dynamically life-changing environment of initial entry training. Forgive the rude comparison, but after a young woman's first love - the next two or three suitors don't do their courting the same, and therefore it's not the right way. Even when I new a recycle was coming from a less than standard unit - it took a lot to refocus them on my and my unit's SOPs and techniques of doing things, and was sometimes impossible to earn their loyalty. The other Soldiers with whom he is graduating don't really know any better at this point (at least until the get to their unit and figure out they're out of shape and lacking basic skills). For him to try and tell them that "this company is all jacked up compared to my last" doesn't lend any basis of comparison for them, nor does he integrate with them - instead he polarizes himself.

There are no easy answers for your questions. It's entirely possible that the new unit had internal problems beyond what was apparent to your son. The individual DS could be having a pretty severe case of burn-out, and his honor has been replaced by apathy and frustration at not being able to train in the manner he wants to (the higher headquarters in that environment is extremely frustrating to deal with). Of course, he could have been a total dirtball who didn't want to be a DS in the first place. If I had to guess based on your comments - the problems in that company aren't at the Drill Sergeant level. I'm far removed from Ft. Benning, and Drill Sergeant days, so which unit or who it is doesn't interest me.

Good luck to you and your Airborne Infantryman. Sometimes, the pathway to success is paved with the skulls of the weak.

[Invictus]

As it sits today after Airborne he goes to the 101st.

Damn, he got boned by being sent to a legendary unit...take some comfort in the knowledge that when your son sees combat, he'll have some of the best in the business at his side.

[cams]

This is probably the last email for quite some time. My son graduates OSUT Friday.

The most upsetting part of this whole ordeal is that he lost his Ranger Contract due to a accident, of which the two who caused the injury are out of the service. He got zero help to get it back. When he returned from his recovery time he got placed in a new Company that was quite disgraceful compared to the one he was in. During his final PT score the DI only counted 1/2 his total PU, why, cause he did not care. At this point you might say well he did not meet the standard. However, the DI asked him how many PU he did the he said that I will just cut that in half. Then this DI teased him for several days about the score. After that PU score my son then just paced one of his buddies for the run so that his buddy could score ok in the run time. He said no sense in running his usual 12 minutes since he could not get his 300 and the DI would more that likely score him slower or lower on the SU.
My son had scored at least 300 on every prior PT and his RECORDED SCORE out of basic is 260. He is overly upset and wonders why the DI did not HONOR the core values of the Military. I told him that during Airborne he will have a chance to amend that pitiful score with something that represents his ability. And that the soldiers who train him during Airborne are professionals and that his drive and determination will be noticed.

As it sits today after Airborne he goes to the 101st. I told him to go ahead and try to volunteer for Ranger during Airborne but don't get your hopes up since his MOS 11b is probably not required. The rumor mill also indicates a hold till Jan.

I would love to ask the Company Comander why in one Training Company the DI's help him in all regards to be a better soldier and assisted him to get his Ranger Contract while in another the DI did everything they could to put him down. In fact one of his prior DI's went out of their way to tell me face to face of his ability and drive. I do not think this DI was blowing smoke since he was the one who got him his Ranger Contract prior to the accident. Do not mis-interpret what I am saying. They smoked him routinely and worked him hard. They drove him to measure him. In the current Company he is in, he said it was pitifully easy and the attitude of the DI was completely opposite. The DI's were just processing recruits.

If you want the specifics on which Company I am talking about PM me.

I still enjoy reading material on this site. Knowing my son he would be a fish in water in a Ranger Batt. Looks like his journey to get there just got longer.

I understand that you're a concerned, loving father and want the best for your son, but I have to look at both sides to any issue and somewhere in the middle is usually the truth.
I for one, would be pretty pissed off if I were that Drill Sergeant and heard someone accusing me of dereliction of duty like that.

I also would lean toward a Senior NCO and Drill Sergeant before I'd believe a boot private.

It sounds to me like your son needs to learn how to take responsibility for his actions as everything seems to be blamed on other peoples failures, not his.

It also sounds to me like he quit during the PT test, not altogether, but just the same, "why run hard when I got low p/u scores?" This is quitting, either way you look at it and will not serve him well in his career if he doesn't change that attitude.

"Why keep fighting when my squad is all but overrun?" It is times like these when you must fight your hardest. PT test or real world, they are all inter-related when it comes to being mentally prepared.

Please don't think I'm bashing you or your son, as a father myself I understand your love and commitment to your boy, but we, as fathers, must also see the whole picture if we are to serve them well.

[Jim]

I can assure you he will be in the company of good soldiers in the 101st Air Assault. If he does a good job, he can compete for a space in Ranger School; probably following his initial combat deployment.

[Kilted Heathen]

Rangers Jim and Invictus.

He is excited that if he can't get into RIP that going into the 101st is a great move as well. He sees this as a win-win situation for himself.

Ranger Cams.

If you see his selfless act of helping a buddy out in PT so that he can get his 90% score as quitting then we are not in agreement. When he recognized the situation, he decided to make sure his buddy scored his 90% as it meant everything to his buddy. He paced him during the run as I have already stated and his buddy made the time he needed in the run by 4 seconds. Comparing this to a combat situation and accusing him of quitting is in fact bashing him.

If I follow your logic, he should not have helped his buddy once he got hosed by the DS cause it is all about the individual. He should have run his sub 12 minute run and did his 90ish SU. Then he would have still scored LESS than he ever has during training and ignored his buddy. To take this logic even one more ridiculous step, in combat when he sees a buddy that needs help he should just ignore him and worry about himself.

Nuff said on this subject. You see it one way, I see it another. Airborne class starts Monday at 0400. He is pumped. Those 250ft towers look awfully damn high when you are near them. They are great landmarks when driving around base though. I would hate to be scared of heights and have to do that ride. Of course I bet the view from there is great.

The last two pieces of advice I gave him was "Eyes and Ears open, mouth shut" and "keep your feet together and knees bent". Any other advice I should pass along?

Nope. You don't fucking need our advice.
Also, you don't close subjects around here since you're not fucking qualified to have an opinion in the first fucking place.

You think sonny is being bashed?
Fuck you. Nobody here is fucking bashing him. Tell you what, why don't you start fucking thinking before you post from now on.
Your son has stepped up and you need to fucking step back.

As far as passing along advice...how about I pass along advice to him in person?
I'm a lot fucking closer than you are.
Are you getting my point?

Stop running your fucking suck to the men you hope will someday train your son.

Sit your ass down and shut the fuck up.

[cams]

Rangers Jim and Invictus.

He is excited that if he can't get into RIP that going into the 101st is a great move as well. He sees this as a win-win situation for himself.

Ranger Cams.

If you see his selfless act of helping a buddy out in PT so that he can get his 90% score as quitting then we are not in agreement. When he recognized the situation, he decided to make sure his buddy scored his 90% as it meant everything to his buddy. He paced him during the run as I have already stated and his buddy made the time he needed in the run by 4 seconds. Comparing this to a combat situation and accusing him of quitting is in fact bashing him.

If I follow your logic, he should not have helped his buddy once he got hosed by the DS cause it is all about the individual. He should have run his sub 12 minute run and did his 90ish SU. Then he would have still scored LESS than he ever has during training and ignored his buddy. To take this logic even one more ridiculous step, in combat when he sees a buddy that needs help he should just ignore him and worry about himself.

Nuff said on this subject. You see it one way, I see it another. Airborne class starts Monday at 0400. He is pumped. Those 250ft towers look awfully damn high when you are near them. They are great landmarks when driving around base though. I would hate to be scared of heights and have to do that ride. Of course I bet the view from there is great.

The last two pieces of advice I gave him was "Eyes and Ears open, mouth shut" and "keep your feet together and knees bent". Any other advice I should pass along?

Nope. You don't fucking need our advice.
Also, you don't close subjects around here since you're not fucking qualified to have an opinion in the first fucking place.

You think sonny is being bashed?
Fuck you. Nobody here is fucking bashing him. Tell you what, why don't you start fucking thinking before you post from now on.
Your son has stepped up and you need to fucking step back.

As far as passing along advice...how about I pass along advice to him in person?
I'm a lot fucking closer than you are.
Are you getting my point?

Stop running your fucking suck to the men you hope will someday train your son.

Sit your ass down and shut the fuck up.

Cardog,

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you here, that's not what I was trying to do.

The Heathen stated it pretty fucking clearly.

Best heed his advice. I'm done.