Combat Skills Course

Eight weeks of smoke, training & evaluation.
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

RRDTm3 wrote:
airbornepog wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do not feel less than equal than someone who went through RIP. I do not feel equal to the "door kickers" and combat soldiers who have deployed and engaged the enemy in combat, at least from a Ranger/Military perspective. However, kicking down doors and fighting isn't my primary job in the army. I am a skilled technician who maintains ground support equipment and vehicles. Like I previously said, I understand the resentment of people who went through a bunch of shit to get to the battalion. But things change, and the army changes, and the "Back when it was hard" attitude was probably just as common with the older Rangers when you went through RIP. What I'm saying is that there are several things in the battalion that make me feel less than equal in a warrior sense, but going through the CSC instead of RIP is not one of them.
From my perspective you seem to have a very good idea of how we feel about guys like you. You do a really good job of explaining the difference between CSC and RIP. You did lose some points by saying you feel the same as if you had gone thru RIP. As long as you and those like you know role your things should go well. I know it takes a massive amount of support to put dude's down range. I love a good support guy, whether it is PAC, supply or in the motor pool. There was a dude there a long time ago named Bertan or something like that. I hear he is a Warrant now but when he worked in the motor pool he was a sniveling, whining, tabless dick head who always bitched about us bringing back fucked up shit. Don't be that guy or let those around you be that guy either. You are there because Rangers need you and vice versa.

Agree 100%. Don't forget why support troops exist -- to ensure that Ranger units close with and destroy the enemy by fire and movement and fire and maneuver.
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Post by Kilted Heathen »

RRDTm3 wrote:
airbornepog wrote:Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do not feel less than equal than someone who went through RIP. I do not feel equal to the "door kickers" and combat soldiers who have deployed and engaged the enemy in combat, at least from a Ranger/Military perspective. However, kicking down doors and fighting isn't my primary job in the army. I am a skilled technician who maintains ground support equipment and vehicles. Like I previously said, I understand the resentment of people who went through a bunch of shit to get to the battalion. But things change, and the army changes, and the "Back when it was hard" attitude was probably just as common with the older Rangers when you went through RIP. What I'm saying is that there are several things in the battalion that make me feel less than equal in a warrior sense, but going through the CSC instead of RIP is not one of them.
From my perspective you seem to have a very good idea of how we feel about guys like you. You do a really good job of explaining the difference between CSC and RIP. You did lose some points by saying you feel the same as if you had gone thru RIP. As long as you and those like you know role your things should go well. I know it takes a massive amount of support to put dude's down range. I love a good support guy, whether it is PAC, supply or in the motor pool. There was a dude there a long time ago named Bertan or something like that. I hear he is a Warrant now but when he worked in the motor pool he was a sniveling, whining, tabless dick head who always bitched about us bringing back fucked up shit. Don't be that guy or let those around you be that guy either. You are there because Rangers need you and vice versa.
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Re: Combat Skills Course

Post by rakks_junkie »

airbornepog wrote:We just finished the 1st combat skills course, the qualifying event for the tan beret. I got my tan beret! We started with 33 and graduated 16. They basically combined all the RIP/ROP events into a two week course, and we also did the RPAT. There was a lot of good training and classes. It was pretty cool for soft skills to receive training from the line NCO's in areas like close quarters marksmanship and combatives. Not many in the army get those opportunities.

Combatives is a tough course to go through, I've seen blood just spill on the floor and broken noses. All in all it was good training and well I am certifed level 1. Combative is a course that is required in 3-101st Rakkasans, so you know there is no bullshit to our training.
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soldiersdad
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Post by soldiersdad »

Hi Rangers, Finally heard from my son and we spoke of this matter. He said Dad, The good from this is we will not or should not have do some of the duties we have done in the past cause of low numbers in support. They did this becaue of low grad numbers in RIP on soft skilled soldiers. As far as them wearing OUR beret if that is how it has to be then fine. BUT we will know who they are and I would assume life in Bn will not be as cool as they believe it will be. They can go home, brag of being a Ranger but in the back of their mind they know their position in bn. Our hangouts will soon know the difference in Rangers and Ranger Supports so that won't be a problem. He also said that he is sure some will have a harder time adjusting than others, it iwll just take some time for them to know their place.
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Bugsy
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Post by Bugsy »

soldiersdad wrote:Hi Rangers, Finally heard from my son and we spoke of this matter. He said Dad, The good from this is we will not or should not have do some of the duties we have done in the past cause of low numbers in support. They did this becaue of low grad numbers in RIP on soft skilled soldiers. As far as them wearing OUR beret if that is how it has to be then fine. BUT we will know who they are and I would assume life in Bn will not be as cool as they believe it will be. They can go home, brag of being a Ranger but in the back of their mind they know their position in bn. Our hangouts will soon know the difference in Rangers and Ranger Supports so that won't be a problem. He also said that he is sure some will have a harder time adjusting than others, it iwll just take some time for them to know their place.
I appreciate your comment SD. My point is this, since the reactivation of Regiment after Grenada there has always been a shortage of soft skill MOS's of one kind or another. However, EVERYONE who put that Beret on whether it was BLACK OR TAN had to pass RIP in order to wear it.

Those standards have been reduced for certain individuals, which in some manner I believe taints the crediblity of those who did not PASS RIP. It has nothing to do with comments like "back when it was hard" that AP tried to associate me with conveying.
IT HAS TO DO WITH TRADITION!!!

I don't give a fuck how tough somebody "thinks" the course is, if they don't apply any smoke other than early morning PT then it ain't the fuckin same as RIP!!!

Personally I would be embarrassed to wear the Beret if I didn't go through RIP like everyone else and truly EARN IT, from the Traditional Path that everyone else has had to go through.
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Post by rgrpuck »

SO when 3rd BN stood up back in 83/84 who went through RIP? There was no RIP.
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Bugsy
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Post by Bugsy »

rgrpuck wrote:SO when 3rd BN stood up back in 83/84 who went through RIP? There was no RIP.
Didn't they staff it up with Bat boys from 1st and 2nd? Then 1SG Conrad was put in charge of taking RIP away from the Battalion level and conducting it from Benning for all 3 Bn's. (that is in the form of a question, I do know for a fact that Rangers from 1st and 2nd were being PCS'd to 3rd Bn to help get them up to proper troop strenght levels and at the time most Rangers I came into contact with didn't want to go to 3rd Bat). In addition hated Regiment for making it happen.
Last edited by Bugsy on January 5th, 2006, 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1984 - 1985 5th Inf Div
1985 - 1986 75th Inf Ranger Regt
1986 - 1988 3/12 SFG (ABN)

The strength of the pack is the Wolf... and the strength of the Wolf is the pack... :twisted:
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

rgrpuck wrote:SO when 3rd BN stood up back in 83/84 who went through RIP? There was no RIP.
Puck,
I was there! Prior to our group arriving in Oct-84 there was no RIP. The Rangers there executed "Beret Qualification Tasks", which consisted of APFT, 12-mile foot march, 5-mile run and Swim Test.

I don't feel the standards are being lowered, Regiment is just trying to support their Rangers to the best of their ability.
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wellfed
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Post by wellfed »

Silverback wrote:
rgrpuck wrote:SO when 3rd BN stood up back in 83/84 who went through RIP? There was no RIP.
Puck,
I was there! Prior to our group arriving in Oct-84 there was no RIP. The Rangers there executed "Beret Qualification Tasks", which consisted of APFT, 12-mile foot march, 5-mile run and Swim Test.

I don't feel the standards are being lowered, Regiment is just trying to support their Rangers to the best of their ability.

ditto!
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soldiersdad
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Post by soldiersdad »

Ranger Bugsy, Thank you for your reply and I COMPLETELY agree with all your comments. My son is currently off doing what real Rangers do and I just relayed the comments he made to me. There is a reason why 137 soldiers from 2 jump classes were in RIP hold with my son and 4 weeks later 41 graduated. Some left becasue of the physical challenges, more left because of the mental challenges they couldn't surpass. Maybe they feel that the support soldiers don't have to be 100% mentally prepared, I don't know. What I do know is that I also would be embarrassed to wear the coveted Tan beret knowing I did not earn it the way others had in the past. RIP graduates passed all the physical requirements of RIP traiining while enduring the constant smoking and the never ending mental aspect of RIP training. In a sence I am glad that they made a soft course for these support soldiers to get in Bn and support real Rangers instead of softening RIP up so these soldiers could pass. I am srry though that they get the same distiction in Bn as being Rangers. But like my son said,"we will know who they are"
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Bugsy
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Post by Bugsy »

After listening and considering all the comments that have been made, one thing I do know.

Whether you went to RIP or not, if you can't do your job and maintain the Ranger standard no matter what your MOS is .......your ass is history.
1984 - 1985 5th Inf Div
1985 - 1986 75th Inf Ranger Regt
1986 - 1988 3/12 SFG (ABN)

The strength of the pack is the Wolf... and the strength of the Wolf is the pack... :twisted:
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

Bugsy wrote:After listening and considering all the comments that have been made, one thing I do know.

Whether you went to RIP or not, if you can't do your job and maintain the Ranger standard no matter what your MOS is .......your ass is history.

Think you hit it on the mark, Bugsy. A good cook, clerk, or mechanic will earn respect by being supportive. A dirtbag 11B will be shunned by his peers if he is not doing his share. So long as standards remain high!
Ranger Class 13-71
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
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Post by rgrpuck »

Silverback wrote:
rgrpuck wrote:SO when 3rd BN stood up back in 83/84 who went through RIP? There was no RIP.
Puck,
I was there! Prior to our group arriving in Oct-84 there was no RIP. The Rangers there executed "Beret Qualification Tasks", which consisted of APFT, 12-mile foot march, 5-mile run and Swim Test.

I don't feel the standards are being lowered, Regiment is just trying to support their Rangers to the best of their ability.
Exactly
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CL 3-88

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Operation Enduring Freedom (Jan-aug '03)
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