On the Topic of Looters...

[Chiron]

Looting is bad. If it’s for food and water and medical supplies then it’s okay because to survive you do what you have to.

I believe a lot of people didn’t have the means and or money to get out for them I feel bad.

I was amazed that Sri Lanka one of the December Tsunami victims gave $25,000 for aid to the Katrina victims. Good for them. I don’t believe other countries with good economic power have not sent aid.

It’s looking very bad my prayers to the people suffering.

[LLVI_Guy]

Am I correct in thinking that the NG will NOT be issued ammunition? This is still a relief effort for them, like Hurricane Andrew?

How is the NG supposed to suppress the criminal activity and organize the evac of the people?

I don't have a HSM, so I'm asking BTDT's to clarify.

Good Morning America said the Governer has given a shoot to kill order for heavy looting.

I guess we'll see.

CBS has more recently reported that troops have not actually been given this order. LA Gov Blanco has cleared it up a bit: interviewed this morning, she says that no one has been ordered to shoot looters on sight, however, the use of deadly force to protect lives has been authorized.

MS Gov Barbour has ordered that looters be treated "ruthlessly."

(Buttstroke to the head serieesss...move..!)

[Creeping Death]

If I understand you both correctly, you are saying that the lack of self-sufficiency and a lean on the welfare state has caused many of the problems? I agree that people should be responsible for their own safety, well being and ask the question "What can I do to get through this"... but this attitude is a bit "I'm alright Jack" (i.e fuck everyone else!").
I lean towards the answer being that a 'community' spirit and social responsibilty would be the best thing - if people worked together, helped each other (their neighbours and fellow man) and work towards getting through this. In London during WW2, as the Germans bombed the shit out of the city, there was the potential for a lawless 'free for all'...now I know that was different situation, but there are similarities. Everyone pulled together, helped each other, fed each other, housed each other... many living in the underground stations (The Tube).. The same applies during terrorists attacks... you don't run around like a headless chicken, you don't seize the opportunity for self gain and just look after your own interests - you pitch in and help.
Regarding relying on the government...they do owe you in some respects - you pay taxes! They have a duty of responsibility... as much as I like to think I look after myself and my own, I would hope my government at least offered basic essentials... food and water and helping the sick and dying - I'm seeng pictures and footage of dying babies here, hospital patients dying in the carpark, policemen handing in their badges as the situation has gone tits up... to me the government (any government) needs to resolve these matters.

I am oversees, a foreigner...but this is how I see it.

I sincerely hope the matter picks up and that the region can get back onto it's feet, I really do.

It is a mentality in our society that is a cancer that is slowly eating away at our livelihood. In this situation, the local authorities in NO and LA have the blood of a lot of people on their hands. RgrPuck is dead fucking on. The politicians in NO are notoriously corrupt Democrats. They had AT LEAST THREE DAYS TO GET THIS CITY READY. A few things that I can think of that they failed to do, considering they knew they had a city killer headed straight for them:

- they could have used their city school buses to bus all of the people to the Superdome, or other shelters. As it is, they left them where they were. Now they are under water and can't be used in the rescue and recovery of their citizenry.

- They could have relocated other equipment critical to the infrastructure to higher ground. They did not.

- They could have had the law enforcement out on bullhorns spreading the word and directing the people where to go, etc. etc. etc. They have not.


I could go on and on and on here. The bottom line is that today, when the POTUS landed for his tour, and received a briefing on the situation, I saw big dogs in the Coast Guard, I saw the FEMA Director, I saw the Governor of AL, and the Governor of MS. I DID NOT SEE THE MAYOR OF NO OR THE GOVERNOR OF LA. Not a soul to brief the POTUS on the situation in NO. In my view, these shitheels have sat on their assess and expected FEMA and the rest of the federal government to do anything and everything for them. FEMA staged food and water two hours away, and this pissy assed NO mayor can't even get the chow delivered inside the city. That useless fucker couldn't stick his finger in his ass if he used both fucking hands.

Furthermore, it shows in the populace as well. People coming out of the projects, obviously distressed. They FINALLY are given food and water, and they bitch and raise Hell because the water isn't cold and the chow is an MRE?!! Fuck that and fuck them. Go back to your flooded house and starve, you ingrateful shitbag.

Looting? Explain to my how taking food from stores in order to survive involves breaking and smashing the windows out of every car found in Meterie .......... for starters. These people are not surviving. They are pissed because Katrina has temporarily derailed the Uncle Sugar Express.

How many of these people that came staggering out of the city, dehydrated, holding their dying children took the time to prepare for the flooding contingency by putting back a little potable water and food. Say, just enough to get them by for a few days? I rest my case ....... almost NONE. The ones that did are doing just fine. They are sucking, but they are surviving. But the people who wait on the government to give everything to them becasue they are "entitled" are dancing with death when combined the mentality of their elected leaders. By comparison, I keep on hand, at any one time, enough food and potable water on hand to feed my family for a minimum of two weeks. In the past, I have kept enough on hand to feed us for six months. Why? Self sufficiency and a preparedness mindset. If the power grid goes down in a winter storm or tornado, I am not gonna sit in my house and freeze to death and die of dehydration waiting on some dickweed from the government to come save me, unlike thousands of citizens in NO. The food is rotated, and the water is changed out periodically to ensure that my family can survive a natural or man made disaster. Thirty years ago, I would have been a normal, prudent man. in todays society, some of you reading this think I am a right wing whacko. And if you are, then you are part of the welfare state problem. I keep this stuff on hand as SOP. These people KNEW they hand a storm of a lifetime heading right towards them AND THOUSANDS DIDN'T DO A GODDAMN THING TO GET READY FOR SHIT!!

This really has nothing to do with teamwork. People who are self-sufficient, in my view, are more apt to jump and and give their shirts to another self-sufficient person in dire need over a person who is sitting there EXPECTING a hand out. It's all about the mentality one possesses.

The local authorities who subscribe to the notion of a welfare state, and members of the community who ARE members of the welfare state have turned an awful disaster into complete and utter chaos and anarchy.

[jsmurphy]

Steel on target, Ranger Creeping Death.

Great post.

[Southern_Brit]

I agree with ranger Creeping Death...looks like NO authorities fucked up... they had enough time to make sure a full evacuation happened, to bus people out, use trains, waterways etc... but failed... and now order is being restored by outside sources (not sure of authorities setups, hierarchys and what not?) i.e military
But my point is on a local level - with the population. Should you expect everyone to have their own food/water supply (I do too...I have a plan for a disatster, terror attack, fire etc...) and tools ready for such an event - we have military backgrounds - it has been taught.
Most people would expect their government (that they pay) to help them in times of distress (not talking about daily benefits) like this.
When the shit hits the fan, these people should have food, water and shelter...to me that's basic. That's a modern society...
I certainly see the view that you can say every man should be able to look after himself and his family and not rely on others...but to me a government has a duty of responsibility - fact.
You do your part for your country and it does it's part for you.
It must serve you aswell.
As I have said, this is an outsider's view and fuck knows if it applies to you or how it sits.
If I was there I would like to think I'd have packed up and bugged out or I'd be fending for myself like I know how... but many don't and they have been left there with nothing and are suffering - is that their own fault (and why?)

This argument will go on and on... alot of people's head will be on the line!

[jsmurphy]

...I'd be fending for myself like I know how... but many don't and they have been left there with nothing and are suffering - is that their own fault (and why?)

Survival of the fittest. Mother Nature's way of thinning the herd.

[Creeping Death]

I am not saying that government doesn't have an obligation to the society. The point is that if people were not of the welfare stae mentality, and more self-sufficient (like many in this country used to be), then the fuck ups of NO's incompetent government officials would not have the catastrophic effects that it has here. Folks would have enough food and water on hand to last a few days, or longer, so that the dickheads in charge can figure out what in the fuck to do.

If my town was wiped out, I couldn't last until everything was rebuilt ......... at least not easily. But I CAN last until such time that disaster relief is put into place and rolling. The thing is, is I don't expect my government to make my life a bowl of fucking cherries. That is my responsibility .......... even in shitty times. Thousands in NO have lived their lived totally dependent on our government for EVERYTHING, and that has been interrupted here, and they feel it is the government's fault. It's bullshit. It is their fault for allowing themselves to become dependent upon their government to such a crippling degree, and for supporting local officials who ar of the same ilk - and have put an entire city in life or death jeopardy as a result.

Not everyone can have the luxury of a military background, and all of the benefits that comes along with service. But in times past, people in this country, in the southern US especially, were very self reliant. It didn't matter if they were military of civilian. But over the course of the last half of the 20th Century, that has changed.

If the people of NO were more self-reliant, they would not have saved themselves totally from this disaster, but it would have definitely improved the manner in which thier city has reacted to this situation, and would have definitely saved lives that have been lost as a result.

There is a saying in this country: a government that is big enough to give you anything you want is big enough to take anything away. The local authorities have failed their constituants here in a MAJOR way.

[Southern_Brit]

Ranger Creeping Death - believe it or not, I'm with you.
Just doesn't sit well watching pictures of the poor being left behind while the middle classes escape. (Seems to be the black left behind - whole new debate!) We could point fingers all day.
As much as it is survival of the fittest it is also a step towards the middle ages or a third world country to leave the sick and ederly behind.
If it happened here in the UK, I'd not be too fussed at watching spongers and dregs of society suffer - those who live on benefits, doing fuck all (which is a huge fucking problem at the moment! )...
I'd think the same - but amongst them are genuine needy people.... they deserve help.

[Creeping Death]

Oh, my heart aches for them just like anyone else, but mainly for the kids. I'm not THAT cold hearted. The LA Governor should be drawn and quartered for how bad she has royally fucked this thing up.

But as bad as that is, I am not afraid to call a spade a spade. And no pun intended. This has nothing at all to do with race in my opinion. NO is 68% black. That's fact. Being black, white, or purple ain't got shit to do with it. Being poor ain't got shit to do with it. Fiscal success has nothing to do with common sense. Five days is enough time for the poorest of the poor to take their food stamps and go buy jugs of water and canned food, just in case. If I am not mistaken, bus rides to the Superdome were offered free of charge. All of the people who stayed in their homes made a conscious choice to do so, for whatever reason. Elderly and infirm? I can see it. Poor or Black? Bullshit. No excuse for putting their children in harm's way.

But, NO is not alone. The same mentality is rampant throughout our entire country, and it turns my stomach. This could have easily been any major metropolitan city in this nation, in my opinion. Tens of thousands of people made the very same bad decision, expecting the government to make them safe. If nothing else, the American people should learn from watching this unfold that it is unwise for anyone to rely on their government for anything, unless of course they enjoy the prospect of being let down.

Having said all of this, I hope and pray that they get whatever resources into that city are required to save all of the people they can. There are kids dieing of thirst as I type this in that city, and in my mind I cannot justify any child dieing of thirst in this country. Even given this disaster, we, as a nation should be able to get these kids water. I guess it just pisses me off to no end to watch children dieing of thirst on national television due to government dependent parents who need their asses kicked up around their shoulders, and chicken shit government officials who are unable or unwilling to make a call and pull the fucking trigger.

I can guarantee you one thing; if that fucking LA governor had ever answered the question "What the fuck are you gonna do, PL?", there wouldn't be kids dieing on I-10 right now. There would be kids drinking some fucking water.

[ANGRYCivilian]

Ranger Creeping Death - believe it or not, I'm with you.
Just doesn't sit well watching pictures of the poor being left behind while the middle classes escape. (Seems to be the black left behind - whole new debate!) We could point fingers all day.
As much as it is survival of the fittest it is also a step towards the middle ages or a third world country to leave the sick and ederly behind.
If it happened here in the UK, I'd not be too fussed at watching spongers and dregs of society suffer - those who live on benefits, doing fuck all (which is a huge fucking problem at the moment! )...
I'd think the same - but amongst them are genuine needy people.... they deserve help.

Oh Christ! Here we go. Of all the video you've seen, most of the people were African American, correct? That's because most of NO's population is. So, that explains why most of the people you've seen were African American. I do not know why most of the population is African American, nor do I know why NO has the largest below-poverty income level in the US. The income level probably has something to do with people not being able to leave. But the African American thing has nothing to do with why they are still there. If the majority of the people in NO were Spanish, then you would see mostly Spanish people. If they were White, then you would see mostly White people.

On to the sick, disabled, and little children. Most of the people I've seen on video seemed able enough to walk out of there if they really wanted to. And the little children, well, there are too fucking many of them anyway. If you're on welfare, why have 4 kids?

I saw some fat shit today, saying, "How we gonna leave? We and got no ride. How we gonna leave?". I honestly don't think he knows that he can use his two swolen fucking feet and move the fuck out. In 14 hours he'd be to safety and shelter and food. Isn't all that available 50 miles out?

I think there is a MONORITY population of people who are actually trapped in NO and are unable to leave on their own power. A MONORITY! Most of those fucks could move out...that is, if they wanted to do anything on their own.

Enough of this. I'll be back Tuesday morning.

[wellfed]

Just a thought!

http://www.jokaroo.com/ecards/funny/foa ... trina.html

[Southern_Brit]

Ranger Creeping Death - believe it or not, I'm with you.
Just doesn't sit well watching pictures of the poor being left behind while the middle classes escape. (Seems to be the black left behind - whole new debate!) We could point fingers all day.
As much as it is survival of the fittest it is also a step towards the middle ages or a third world country to leave the sick and ederly behind.
If it happened here in the UK, I'd not be too fussed at watching spongers and dregs of society suffer - those who live on benefits, doing fuck all (which is a huge fucking problem at the moment! )...
I'd think the same - but amongst them are genuine needy people.... they deserve help.

Oh Christ! Here we go. Of all the video you've seen, most of the people were African American, correct? That's because most of NO's population
is. So, that explains why most of the people you've seen were African American. I do not know why most of the population is African American, nor do I know why NO has the largest below-poverty income level in the US. The income level probably has something to do with people not being able to leave. But the African American thing has nothing to do with why they are still there. If the majority of the people in NO were Spanish, then you would see mostly Spanish people. If they were White, then you would see mostly White people.

On to the sick, disabled, and little children. Most of the people I've seen on video seemed able enough to walk out of there if they really wanted to. And the little children, well, there are too fucking many of them anyway. If you're on welfare, why have 4 kids?

I saw some fat shit today, saying, "How we gonna leave? We and got no ride. How we gonna leave?". I honestly don't think he knows that he can use his two swolen fucking feet and move the fuck out. In 14 hours he'd be to safety and shelter and food. Isn't all that available 50 miles out?

I think there is a MONORITY population of people who are actually trapped in NO and are unable to leave on their own power. A MONORITY! Most of those fucks could move out...that is, if they wanted to do anything on their own.

Enough of this. I'll be back Tuesday morning.

No, I wasn't intending to use the race card, I just haven't seen a white face amongst those left behind... I guessed that NO has a huge black population and that's the answer....but I have been watching the build up prior to this, the footage of people leaving in vehicles, the interviews with nervous people making a move out and talks with people as they boarded up their homes - they were all white. I haven't put 2 and 2 together and made 5, just thought that the those with money and transport bugged out, those without have been left behind.

I'm not making a big deal of it - as you say they could be Spanish...it doesn't matter.

Fuck.... I'm not kanye West!

[AbnRgr289]

Just a thought!

http://www.jokaroo.com/ecards/funny/foa ... trina.html

That little fucker makes alot of sense doesnt he?..................Go figure!

[LLVI_Guy]

I apoligize in advance. I'm not religious but, I think god had enough and decided just to start over down there.

That reminds me of this lady being interviewed at the convention center a couple of days back when all hell was breaking loose there. She was saying that she wasn't worried because God was in control of everything going on in NO. All I could think was "Lady, the last time God was in control of something like this, Sodom and Gemorrah were burned to cinders!"