After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by centermass »

And to go back to the original question, not any longer. They have opened the flood gates and Pandora's box. There's no telling how many things will change now that they have their foot in the door.

I thank them for the lessons and experience provided me in my younger years and at the same time, screw them for what they have now become. Another notch on the pole smoking agenda.
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by RangerX »

Gota say, after today, I damn sure think they are relevant....in pockets at least. Shot a match today. Local Boy Scout troop was there in prep for supporting the upcoming state match. Those boys were squared away, listened to everything they were told, and I didn't see a single instance of dumbass the entire time. In addition to the uniformed troop leadership, there were at least 10 fathers acvtively involved. Damn near gave me hope.

So maybe Boy Scouts as an organization is FUBAR, but there are troops out there that are still worth a damn.
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Jim »

RangerX wrote: So maybe Boy Scouts as an organization is FUBAR, but there are troops out there that are still worth a damn.
That's a refreshing observation. Thanks.
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Jim »

The Southern Baptist Convention weighs in on BSA decision:


http://news.yahoo.com/southern-baptists ... 36872.html
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by rangertough »

"I am very sad to say that it seems as though (Boy Scouts) are moving away from the principles they were founded upon," Wes Taylor, pastor at Tabernacle Baptist Church in Palatka, Florida, said.

Yep, because Lord Bayden-Powell founded BSA with an anti-gay agenda.

The same way the Founding Fathers were dead set on the USA being a Christian State above all others (no matter the lack of any mention of this in the actual Constitution and writings from the men themselves that display a deffinative preference against any Religious State).

I am an Eagle Scout an initiate in Order of the Arrow, a firm believer in BSA, what it teaches and the continued benefits of Scouting for ALL young men.

Scouting taught me many things and one of those was tollerance for people with different belief systems from my own. No where in the Oath, Moto or Law does it say "I will remain a heterosexual at all times." Don't throw "morally straight" at me as morals change and are applied differently to individuals as they mature. It's not like we are tossing Muslims out of Scouting.

I feel BSA took a much harder loss when they allowed female Scout Masters in Troops. Why did that happen? Fathers were shirking thier responsibilities to thier sons and abandoning them. Leaving BSA to chose to allow Mothers involvement after cub-scouts. If they didn't allow this many boys wouldn't recieve any benefit from Scouting.

BSA helps to provide a place for young men to be allowed to mature into adulthood while "hopefully" providing a positive role-model. However, even in my troop (Troop 97 Fort Collins CO) we had fathers that were abusive alcoholics, filanderers, thieves and many other wastes of skin. I belive a gay father, who is a stand-up citizen, that loves his child and cares for the positive developement of young men (snicker all you want) is a far better choice than the examples I stated before.

My troop was one of the largest in the state with over 100 active scouts at any given time and the highest Eagle percentage in Colorado. All of this was accomplished because about ten fathers worked very hard to make the Troop successful. I am proud to say one of them was my Father who is also an Eagle Scout. Our Troop leader was a guy who had a toddler and a solid love for Scouting.

Is Scouting still relevant? I believe so and I will enrole my son as soon as I can and support him along the way to the best of my ability.

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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by CloakAndDagger »

When I was a Boy Scout, I would have been apprehensive (to put it mildly) about being around a "gay" troop member, but I think that had more to do with my age than it did with being a Boy Scout. That being said, I do not have a problem with BSA's decision to allow gay scouts. Why? In core age group for new Boy Scouts (no point in talking about Cubs), around 10-13, you're not likely to find many "gay" kids who are "hardwired" to that behavior, let alone who have willing participated in homosexuality. Now, if a boy that age is acting out as gay, whether for attention or maybe they've been abused, I see Boy Scouts as a good activity and organization to get them past that.

Now, gay scoutmasters on the other hand, not only "no", but "HELL NO!"
...Let's be honest, how many of us straight men, have seen a pretty girl, and have either:
A. Thought inappropriate things, then berated yourself when you found out she was actually underage
B. Thought "She's HOT! I wonder if she's 18?"
C. (Here's to hoping none of us have done Option C, which will remain unstated)

I think it's safe to assume adult homosexual males run into the same three issues with respect to boys.

Also, I completely agree on "no female scoutmasters", and "no girls in Boy Scouts".
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by RangerX »

Who actually bothers wondering if she's under 18 (unless breaching the perimeter)?!?

Crap. That was out loud again, wasn't it?
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Sleepy Doc »

I've tried to post two times on this and lost the text (thanks to my shitty-ass internet connection timing out..)
That being said...

I agree with Tough 110%. Not only do I think that the Boy Scouts are still relevant, they are more relevant than ever. The lessons of duty to God, Country, Family and Community still resonate to this day. One of the strengths of the organization is that they have not changed their message one iota. The Scout Law, Scout Oath, Motto and slogan have not changed since the day that Lord Baden-Powell made them. A study was done of men who had Alzheimer's and they found something interesting. Of those who had been involved on scouting, they all remembered three specific things; the Law, Oath, and the name of their first scoutmaster. Sadly, the preacher that he quoted has forgotten, or never knew one of the basic tenets of Scouting, and that is respect for others religious beliefs. There are more than a few religions recognized by BSA that have absolutely no issue with homosexuality (Buddhist, Hindu, Unitarian..) No one is trying to convert his beliefs, he just hast to respect the fact that there are those who don't feel the same way he does.

Also, as a scoutmaster, I have to agree with Tough that I couldn't care less what parents do in the privacy of their own bedroom. If they are willing to help out with the program and conduct themselves in a mature manner, I give a shit what gets them off. Which leads me to my next point. This should be a non-issue because it is inappropriate to discuss ones sexual activities with the scouts anyway, regardless of orientation. If I am with my scouts and I see some hot-ass chick that I would love to bang, I'm gonna keep that shit to myself, thank you very much. This decision isn't going to force me to have a "bring your boyfriend pizza slumber party" any time soon.

I think BSA really dropped the ball with this decision. They send a totally mixed message by saying a scout can be gay, but as soon as he turns 18 he is no longer welcome. However, this is not going to change what I do at all. i am still going to teach them to respect and love the Country and flag that represents it. And I am going to continue to to teach them that the 5th point of the Scout Law, being courteous, is non- conditional. Ironically, the Girl Scouts did away witht heir official prohibition about 20 years ago and it has never been an issue.

Added: also, as to what C&D was saying, I was told by a gay friend of mine is that not all gay men are pedophiles. No more than all gay men want to fuck everything with a dick and two legs.
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Flesh Thorn »

rangertough wrote:
I am an Eagle Scout an initiate in Order of the Arrow
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by rangertough »

Flesh Thorn wrote:
rangertough wrote:
I am an Eagle Scout an initiate in Order of the Arrow
WWW
What, what, what?:twisted:
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Lefty »

In general, the concept has merit and worth.

In the specific troops, the quality or lack thereof runs the entire spectrum. It comes down to the commitment and quality of the commitment from the fathers.

And, yes, IMHO, the Boy Scouts is for boys, to be led and counseled by the fathers. Girl Scouts is for the girls and their mothers. Stop messing up all the decent goals and accomplishments with all this nonsensical blurring of genders.

I was a Boy Scout too, only made it to First Class, but learned some good lessons and had quality outdoor experiences.

I just completed work on evaluation of scholarship applications. One of the applicants had been an Eagle Scout whose application stood out as one of the best.

Maybe it is comparable to Andy Bell's old quote about being a Ranger. Does a young man become who he is because he was an Eagle Scout or does he become an Eagle Scout because of who he is?
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Sleepy Doc »

Absolutely, 100% the Boy Scouts of America are still relevant. I just recently stepped down as Scoutmaster of a Troop I ran for three years because my son is Cub Scouts now and I want to spent the time with him. In those three years, three of my Scouts made Eagle, and one did not before he aged out. He had every opportunity to finish, and really didn't have a lot to do, but he never made the commitment. Being a Scoutmaster taught me a lot of lessons about myself, not the least of which was patience. There were times when they pissed me off so much that I wanted to disband the Troop, but I had to step back and tell myself, "Hey, they are just kids. sometimes they don't know any better..." More times than not, however, they would pull together when you least expected it and surprise me with what they could accomplish.

It was mentioned that the "op tempo", if you will, depends upon the adult leadership. That is so true. I like to think we had an very active, if small, Troop. The parents were really involved, and we did a lot that other Troops really didn't do. One of them was to go camping every month. I didn't realize how many in our area did not do that. There were many times (that I'm sure they got sick of hearing..) where I pointed out to them the uncanny parallels between the principles of the Ranger Creed and the Scout Oath, Motto, and Law. (I'm convinced that CSM Gentry was an Eagle Scout..some of the words are verbatim) I like to think that I taught them to treat everyone with respect, and dignity even if they didn't deserve it. I tried to teach them to be good citizens, and understand why it was important to have respect for your flag and country. I tried to show them to respectful of others beliefs, even if they didn't agree with them.

I hope they picked up on some of the stuff I was telling them. I like to think they did. I never realized what an incredible amount of time and money was required of the position. It's like a part-time job, but instead of getting paid, you have to pay. In the end though, I think it was worth it.
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by hobbit »

Some of the most notable men who ever lived in this country were Boy Scouts/Eagle Scouts: Hank Aaron, Nolan Ryan, and President John F. Kennedy just to name a few.
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Ranger Hix »

I have not posted in a long time, but have followed along and read plenty. This issue with the Scout "still being relative" is a great read. I agree with many, the Scouts really dropped the ball on the entire gay boys and adult leaders issue. There first and only response should of been that no members sexuality should of ever been an issue. It is not more acceptable for you to talk to your scouts about your straight dates than it is to ask them out on one. Said with sarcasm of course. The point being made about gay leaders hitting on your son makes about as much since, as making it morally incorrect for a heterosexual male to coach his daughters softball team for fear that he is checking out the new shortstop. Whatever your feeling about homosexuality, remember there is a huge difference between being "Gay" and being a pedophile.
Everyone for the last thirty years has complained about the breakdown of the "next generation". I think we need to take a better look at what is causing the "next generation" to be softer, having lower standards and lesser morals. The generation or two before you are the ones that make the rules, "next generation" is only asked to follow or live up to these standards. So whose fault is it?
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Re: After 100 Years, Are The Boy Scouts Still Relevant?

Post by Jim »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America

Interesting information about the Boy Scouts.
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