Who were the greatest military leaders?

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rgrokelley
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by rgrokelley »

Invictus wrote:
Rock Island Ranger wrote: Im not sure history should count those things against him since accounts of the decisions were at best, mixed. Add in the inability to KNOW many factors on a certain time frame, and you have a decision made an hour ago that is now...a bad idea. He did take risk and he did make decisions. What leader of this magnitude has ever done it all JUST RIGHT. And in a time frame where technology was a set of Bino's.

Agree CSM, it's just unfortunate that all of these possible mistakes seem to be present in the most decisive battle of the war. His last great opportunity was squandered because of multiple bad decisions. At least you could argue that.
Gettysburg was one of two major fuckups of his in the war (the other one being Malvern Hill). This just proves no one is perfect. There are a lot of "why"s to Gettysburg. One, no more Stonewall. When you had the trinity of Lee, Jackson and Longstreet, they never got beat. Two, he lost a really good friend and it messed with his mind. Three, he thought his men were invicible, and prior to Gettysburg they were. He thought they could do it, and they came really close to succeeding. Remember that Gettysburg was a three day battle, and in the end the Yankees were tore up too much to pursue Lee. Four, Lee was almost 60 and had been in the field, living in a tent, for over a year. He had just gotten over a sickness and having been thrown from his horse and breaking his hands.

Gettysburg was not the end. It wasn't until Grant came in, with his Soviet Union style tactics of killing as many of his men as possible to achieve the ends, that the war turned, but even then it took over a year to do it.
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

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DrD wrote:Not to change the subject, or interfere... (I am really enjoying this, and learning a lot!) Buuuut, any thoughts specifically on Middle Eastern leaders, tactics, etc? Know it is a touchy subject. PM me if it is better than posting in the wild. :wink:

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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by rgrokelley »

Horned Toad wrote:
DrD wrote:Not to change the subject, or interfere... (I am really enjoying this, and learning a lot!) Buuuut, any thoughts specifically on Middle Eastern leaders, tactics, etc? Know it is a touchy subject. PM me if it is better than posting in the wild. :wink:

Shana
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by DrD »

Rock Island Ranger wrote:
Alexander is reputed to be one of the finest leaders ever in many respects. Utterly brilliant, supremely confident in his men and training, and led from the front. It is said, he fought in every battle and had mastered every weapon used by his men. He loved his enemy when they fought well, respected and loved his men, and was returned this love and respect. He allowed the lowest soldier to address him by name and only considered himself "a warrior", never a King. He lived for the fight. He had HUGE contempt for the leader who would surround himself with soldiers to protect himself and made it a point to humiliate them and would not EVER quit pursuing them to that end. The opposing leaders who were drenched in blood and barely standing and refused to surrender, he would build temples to, cry over, and paid huge sums of gold to their families.
From everything I have heard, this seems to be a common trait amongst the most respected leaders. It is obvious that a strong and respected leader can choose more risky tactics and have their men choose to follow through. How risky? This is a biased forum to ask this. You guys would take down Hell, even if you didn't think there was a way back. But, what about others? What about those you encounter - how dedicated are they in their opposition, and how do you gauge what they will do for their commander?

And, for a poor leader, at what point will folks choose to not follow that leader aggressively? (Either not give it their all, or turn on that person...)

Urgh. I know these questions are getting personal. Thank you for thinking about it. PM/email me if you wish.

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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by DrD »

Rangers;

Thank you all for the names!
Invictus wrote:
I've read a few "what if" books on other courses of action, and would really like to have seen what might have come from him withdrawing that 1st day rather than really getting into it with Buford, and picking better ground.
Hhhmmm... Ranger Invictus... "what if" books? You got my attention with that. :wink: Are these listed on the military books thread that is going?

Best;
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

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Rangertom wrote: As for how to gauge it ….. that is a psychology question and therefore an art not a science.
Indeed it is, Ranger Rangertom. The Dark Arts. The field no one likes to talk about...

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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

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DrD wrote:
Indeed it is, Ranger Rangertom. The Dark Arts. The field no one likes to talk about...

Shana
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

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Ranger RangerX, I am scared to click on that link!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can see the network admins now... "Shana... you are into midget porn?????"

You guys crack me up.
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by Kilted Heathen »

Robert The Bruce.

Hollywood did him a great disservice in Braveheart. Bannockburn was not fought immediatley after Wallace died, it was actually the seventh major engagement and he was defeated the first six times. He was hiding in a cave after his most recent defeat with English patrols hunting him like an animal. Almost ready to quit the kingdom and head for exile in France he watched a small spider try to run a web from wall to wall in his cave. The spider would try and fail, try and fail...six times. It made it on the seventh attempt. Robert gathered his ragged force and met the English for his seventh battle for his own crown at Bannockburn. Chronicles of the day state the Scots were out-numbered five to one. They won they field. A spider won our kingdom back.

To this day Scots consider spiders good luck.
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by Horned Toad »

Kilted Heathen wrote:Robert The Bruce.

Hollywood did him a great disservice in Braveheart. Bannockburn was not fought immediatley after Wallace died, it was actually the seventh major engagement and he was defeated the first six times. He was hiding in a cave after his most recent defeat with English patrols hunting him like an animal. Almost ready to quit the kingdom and head for exile in France he watched a small spider try to run a web from wall to wall in his cave. The spider would try and fail, try and fail...six times. It made it on the seventh attempt. Robert gathered his ragged force and met the English for his seventh battle for his own crown at Bannockburn. Chronicles of the day state the Scots were out-numbered five to one. They won they field. A spider won our kingdom back.

To this day Scots consider spiders good luck.
So you are saying national pride hangs by a thread :o
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by Jim »

Horned Toad wrote:So you are saying national pride hangs by a thread :o
Frequently. Ask: FDR, Churchill, etc.
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Re: Who were the greatest military leaders?

Post by Caruthers »

TC204 wrote:I know a master blower that's from Edinburgh,

A Scott from first batt..............
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