DCLT vs. Airborne school for an ROTC Cadet

[Trigger]

Rangers,

I'm a contracted MS3 cadet heading to LDAC this summer. I joined ROTC and attended LTC last summer. I want to attend follow on training after LDAC and I'm looking for your advice on which to choose. My main options are:

-DCLT: Drill Cadet Leadership Training; following LDAC you attend a 1 week cadre training class and then spend 3 weeks at either BCT or OSUT, assisting in training and shadowing Drill Sergeants and NCO's in order to learn from them. This is a one time opportunity to spend some more time under the mentorship of Drill Sergeants before I commission and I would really value that. This option requires committing before leaving for LDAC.

Airborne/Air Assault/Mountain Warfare slots that may or may not be available to me upon completion of LDAC. Airborne would obviously be my preference of the three; as I heard a Ranger here say, "no one sings fucking cadences about air assault". The complication with this option is I won't know if or what I would get until I'm there, which would be too late to do DCLT in the event I can't get a slot (I'm confident in my ability to get a slot; but, Murphy's law...).

On one hand DCLT is a one time opportunity, on the other hand I hear the last thing one wants to do is go to RS as a leg (if Murphy's law kicked in and I couldn't get a slot before going to RS).

- Trigger

[Grumble and Grunt]

For what it is worth:

You will get ABN before or after IBOLC. You will not get AASLT or Pathfinder easily. You might use slingloads or do air assaults in theater.

I know even less people who have been to mountain warfare school.

Don't go anywhere because of a badge.

I don't think a cadet has much place at BCT shadowing DS's. There is a solid chance you could take very little away from that as you might get a DS who just doesn't have much interest in mentoring someone. You might get Jesus in Jumpboots who bestows upon you the best mentorship you have ever seen. I just don't think 3 weeks of OSUT will give you that much that you won't learn from finding a prior service 11B in your IBOLC or BOLC platoon and picking his brain. ABN will shorten your timeline at FT Benning and guarantee you get to jump 3X in RS (2 or more of which might be scratched).

Just some pros and cons. What do you think you need?

I think you should try and get SCUBA. Thats what I would do.

[Trigger]

Ranger Grumble and Grunt,

Thanks for bringing up the risk factor of DCLT - it could not turn out to be beneficial at all. I've been thinking of it in the ideal context, and as you said and I now realize, chances are that won't materialize.

To answer your question, I need to best prepare myself to lead my future soldiers. I saw DCLT as a good opportunity to learn more about what makes PVT's tick through getting first hand time with them at OSUT; figuring that the better I understand them, the better I can lead them. But as you stated - there is no guarantee I will walk away with that after 3 weeks. I may very well just be placed OIC in charge of some made up busy-work task and waste 3 weeks there.

Getting a school that would be harder to get elsewhere sounds like a solid plan, but that voice in my head won't stop screaming "AIRBORNE". Mountain Warfare seems like it would be good preparation for RS. I hear it is a lot of rucking in difficult terrain.

I would jump on SCUBA if I could get it. I don't know if they still give those slots to cadets anymore. On my accessions packet where it asked you to check what schools you'd like to go to (it gives you the option of "Airborne", "Ranger", and "Other" as a write in) I checked "Airborne", "Ranger", "Other" and wrote in HALO, AASLT, and SCUBA. Someone is probably going to read that and laugh, but what the hell, they asked so I told 'em.


Thanks Ranger Grumble,

-Trigger

[Grumble and Grunt]

HALO and RANGER aren't going to happen.

I know other CPTs with SCUBA from their ROTC days. 3 or 4 of them actually.

Good luck.

[Trigger]

HALO and RANGER aren't going to happen.

I know other CPTs with SCUBA from their ROTC days. 3 or 4 of them actually.

Good luck.

Ranger Grumble,

Yes, I knew HALO was a total pipe dream. I will make sure to ask around with the Cadre at LDAC if any SCUBA slots are available.

What do you think of the CTLT program, the regular program in which the cadet assumes the role of a PL?

- Trigger

[Grumble and Grunt]

I never had a cadet when I was a LT nor did I get to do the program. I've seen it around and heard about it. That will give you the most insight into the Army since it actually is FORSCOM and not a TRADOC unit. If you go to CTLT with ABN under your belt at an ABN unit you might get some jumps. If you go to a SFG (they used to do that) you might get some "funny" jumps.

Do CTLT.

Also don't go to MTN WRFR because you can ruck. You can ruck anywhere. As a cadet you should have access to all of these courses' MOIs via AKO and their corresponding posts' websites. Read them if you haven't yet. If all you get is ABN move out and be happy. Whatever you do, don't show up anywhere with a Ranger Challenge Tab. Don't tell anyone LDAC stories or count your ROTC time as TIS. Keep in mind you are going to be an officer and behave as you are already one but don't demand or expect the customs and courtesies which accompany a commission.

Let us know what happens.

[Grumble and Grunt]

I wouldn't say you "assume" the role of the PL. I would say you shadow him. You might get to give an OPORDER but you're not going to start an OER support form and sign his hand receipts.

Mind your verbiage as it becomes your intent when talking to subordinates.

[Trigger]

I never had a cadet when I was a LT nor did I get to do the program. I've seen it around and heard about it. That will give you the most insight into the Army since it actually is FORSCOM and not a TRADOC unit. If you go to CTLT with ABN under your belt at an ABN unit you might get some jumps. If you go to a SFG (they used to do that) you might get some "funny" jumps.

Do CTLT.

Also don't go to MTN WRFR because you can ruck. You can ruck anywhere. As a cadet you should have access to all of these courses' MOIs via AKO and their corresponding posts' websites. Read them if you haven't yet. If all you get is ABN move out and be happy. Whatever you do, don't show up anywhere with a Ranger Challenge Tab. Don't tell anyone LDAC stories or count your ROTC time as TIS. Keep in mind you are going to be an officer and behave as you are already one but don't demand or expect the customs and courtesies which accompany a commission.

Let us know what happens.

Roger that Sir, to this post and the one you posted below it.

I tossed my "Ranger Challenge" tab in the bottom of a box the minute I got it. So did the rest of the team, we all agreed it was insulting to real Rangers to hand something like that out to cadets just for being in a competition.

Thanks again for all the advice Sir. ArmyRanger.com has been a great resource.

- Trigger

[PocketKings]

I'd pick:

1) Airborne - face it, if you ain't Airborne, you ain't shit
2) Mountain - Some of the best training I got, a great school, and made Mountain Phase of RS a cakewalk. It may be 'just rucking,' but it's 'just rucking' up huge fucking mountains. It helped me break into a whole new level of PT fitness which paid dividends in RS
3) Air Assault - Some decent learning, especially for a cadet
4) Anything else

I 'get' the whole CTLT thing. It's just a big crap shoot on the unit and PL you end up with. I never did CTLT, but I did have a few cadets assigned to my units. I think you need time with real soldiers to get thier take. You spend a few days with RIPees in Airborne and you get a taste of the real Army.

That drill crap is useless. I'm looking at training that will help you be a better operational soldier first. Being a good PL is what you learn from your PSG/1SG and (on rare occasions) from your CO .

[Jim]

If you have the opportunity to knock out Airborne in the summer. Get it out of the way. If you do something else -- you miss the opportunity to write a cool "how I spent my summer" composition in English class.

[42L5V]

When I was a Drill, we had a West Pointer who "hung" out for a couple weeks. I told him to stay the fuck out of my way, and stay the fuck away from my troops.

Take that for what it's worth.

[Silverback]

When I was a Drill, we had a West Pointer who "hung" out for a couple weeks. I told him to stay the fuck out of my way, and stay the fuck away from my troops.

Take that for what it's worth.

That means you failed to train the Cadet as the Army intended!

[42L5V]

When I was a Drill, we had a West Pointer who "hung" out for a couple weeks. I told him to stay the fuck out of my way, and stay the fuck away from my troops.

Take that for what it's worth.

That means you failed to train the Cadet as the Army intended!

Not when he came in expecting everyone to salute him and stand at attention. As a non-commissioned college boy.

[Grumble and Grunt]

I'd pick:

1) Airborne - face it, if you ain't Airborne, you ain't shit
2) Mountain - Some of the best training I got, a great school, and made Mountain Phase of RS a cakewalk. It may be 'just rucking,' but it's 'just rucking' up huge fucking mountains. It helped me break into a whole new level of PT fitness which paid dividends in RS
3) Air Assault - Some decent learning, especially for a cadet
4) Anything else

I 'get' the whole CTLT thing. It's just a big crap shoot on the unit and PL you end up with. I never did CTLT, but I did have a few cadets assigned to my units. I think you need time with real soldiers to get thier take. You spend a few days with RIPees in Airborne and you get a taste of the real Army.

That drill crap is useless. I'm looking at training that will help you be a better operational soldier first. Being a good PL is what you learn from your PSG/1SG and (on rare occasions) from your CO .

# 2 is a good way to look at MTNWRFR. With that criteria I would follow this DP list. Sound advice.

[Ribot0]

Trigger,

As an MSIV who went through camp last year, I'd recommend getting whatever slots you can from your school before you go to camp. If you can get Airborne, go for it. Same for CTLT / DCLT or any other slots. When you get to camp, nothing is guaranteed. There are not many slots available to be picked up from there- from my Regiment, only three people got Airborne. Nobody got any of the more high speed schools - they are competitive and require an application beforehand, and are tied to a specific regiment. Take what you can get and don't be picky. After knocking out Airborne, Air Assault, and flight school these past three summers, I've learned more from talking with Enlisted / NCO / Officers doing the training with me than from the courses themselves.

I would also agree with Ranger PocketKings ranking list.