Can we win

[Chiron]

My 2 pennies for what it's worth. We lost this one the minute some asshole in Congress mentioned a timetable for troop withdrawals. The American people do not have the will or fortitude to fight an extended conflict.

We can not win in the Middle East as long as we worry about be "politically correct" and world opinion.

I 100% agree with this! People have a very short memory. 9/11 will be forgotten until the next terrorist attack. Sadly Americans are seen as people without the stomach for war let alone the $pocket$.

I hope one day soon the U.S. will stop all foreign aid and let the world feel what it would be like without the U.S. Then let’s see who's with us or against us.

Unfortunately now that the "left" is rowing only God knows how many asses the U.S. will be kissing to keep the terrorists out.

Nevertheless, I predict that even if this war comes to a grinding halt, it will pick up again as soon as the terrorists hit again. The machine may take some time to reach "RPM" again but I feel that the terrorists will not be able to stop hitting once the pressure is off.

That's my $0.02 worth.

My concern is that the next attack will leave us in a situation similar to that depicted in the TV show Jericho. I don't know that the terrorists have that kind of capability now (I doubt they do since they haven't used it), but they could real soon.

At any rate, I'm rethinking my SHTF scenario preperartion.

Never saw the TV show Jericho.

[Chiron]

You can safely bet on a couple of things:
1) There will be another attack
2) It will be on a date that has historical significance
3) It will be an attack aimed at our econmic infrastructure, legislative and executive brances of government as well as the pentagon.
4) They will not attack until they are fully set

5) The attack will take many, many lives...

[DixieRat]

I 100% agree with this! People have a very short memory. 9/11 will be forgotten until the next terrorist attack. Sadly Americans are seen as people without the stomach for war let alone the $pocket$.

I hope one day soon the U.S. will stop all foreign aid and let the world feel what it would be like without the U.S. Then let’s see who's with us or against us.

Unfortunately now that the "left" is rowing only God knows how many asses the U.S. will be kissing to keep the terrorists out.

Nevertheless, I predict that even if this war comes to a grinding halt, it will pick up again as soon as the terrorists hit again. The machine may take some time to reach "RPM" again but I feel that the terrorists will not be able to stop hitting once the pressure is off.

That's my $0.02 worth.

My concern is that the next attack will leave us in a situation similar to that depicted in the TV show Jericho. I don't know that the terrorists have that kind of capability now (I doubt they do since they haven't used it), but they could real soon.

At any rate, I'm rethinking my SHTF scenario preperartion.

Never saw the TV show Jericho.

FYI

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/

It's kind of interesting, although a little bit unrealistic in places. I enjoy it, mostly.

[Chiron]

FYI

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/

It's kind of interesting, although a little bit unrealistic in places. I enjoy it, mostly.

Thanks I sent the link home to watch later.

[Caruthers]

It seems Sadam Hussian(sp?) was phrophetic when he calle it the Mother of all wars. Its been non-stop kill the western culture. We are too scared to piss off the Moderate Islamic/muslum states to make them dread killing Americans. The cold war with the USSR is over but not with the Russians. Putin is KGB to the bone........cutting our throats is his life. Russia and China are benefting from all the culture clash/war.

IMO< we (Americans) will never defeat the terrorist: until they change thier belief that they have to die for allha to a belief that they must live for allha.

I always wondered why they don't attack China.....no religion...is there?
They know the Little yellow bastards would enslave their asses in a week.

Range is hot.

Fuck, I need to find spell check on here!

[nadnklipsch]

I can't wait until all of the oil runs dry and we can leave the Middle East as a giant third world region with no source of income. Then the real fun will begin as they realize that they need America in order to survive.

[Rock Island Ranger]

This war cannot be won because we will not let it be won. We will be attacked again and it will be severe. Its not doom and gloom....it's just the way its going to happen. And as we discussed in another thread, I hope you guys get yourselves ready because the strategy will be brutal. It wont kill that many people in the grand sheme of things. But it will disrupt what people live on and live by and that will cause the masses to go fucking crazy.

[Creeping Death]

Just how big of a patrol base could we form up on the farm, anyway, Padre?

[hobbit]

This war cannot be won because we will not let it be won. We will be attacked again and it will be severe. Its not doom and gloom....it's just the way its going to happen. And as we discussed in another thread, I hope you guys get yourselves ready because the strategy will be brutal. It wont kill that many people in the grand sheme of things. But it will disrupt what people live on and live by and that will cause the masses to go fucking crazy.

Perhaps, but look what happened in California when Gray Davis was the Democrat Party governor. His moronic policies regarding electric power legislation led to the worst series of brownouts and total blackouts in the state's history. More than 50% of San Francisco and Bay area voters, who were heavily affected by the brownouts, signed petitions for a recall election even though that district traditionally votes more than 80% Democrat. This led to Davis being booted out of office in mid-term with Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger's win at the polls.

The point is this: when Americans have their personal comfort zone threatened (whether it be electricity or crude oil availability), internecine politics goes down the drain like yesterday's bath water. It's a sad statement of the American human zoo that higher considerations of Islamic religious fanaticism and its jihad against civilization aren't motivation enough to continue the war on terror, but let the SUV go up on blocks, or let the AIDS drugs stop being produced because there are no more petrochemicals coming in from abroad, and Americans will exact a vengeance making 9/11 look like a kindergarten scuffle. We'll pay through the ass for these commodities, and bitch about it every waking second, but in no way will we tolerate the end of supply of these commodities. When their personal comfort zone is threatened, when self-interest or selfishness is the motivation, even American "pacifists" become material warriors.

[Rock Island Ranger]

This war cannot be won because we will not let it be won. We will be attacked again and it will be severe. Its not doom and gloom....it's just the way its going to happen. And as we discussed in another thread, I hope you guys get yourselves ready because the strategy will be brutal. It wont kill that many people in the grand sheme of things. But it will disrupt what people live on and live by and that will cause the masses to go fucking crazy.

Perhaps, but look what happened in California when Gray Davis was the Democrat Party governor. His moronic policies regarding electric power legislation led to the worst series of brownouts and total blackouts in the state's history. More than 50% of San Francisco and Bay area voters, who were heavily affected by the brownouts, signed petitions for a recall election even though that district traditionally votes more than 80% Democrat. This led to Davis being booted out of office in mid-term with Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger's win at the polls.

The point is this: when Americans have their personal comfort zone threatened (whether it be electricity or crude oil availability), internecine politics goes down the drain like yesterday's bath water. It's a sad statement of the American human zoo that higher considerations of Islamic religious fanaticism and its jihad against civilization aren't motivation enough to continue the war on terror, but let the SUV go up on blocks, or let the AIDS drugs stop being produced because there are no more petrochemicals coming in from abroad, and Americans will exact a vengeance making 9/11 look like a kindergarten scuffle. We'll pay through the ass for these commodities, and bitch about it every waking second, but in no way will we tolerate the end of supply of these commodities. When their personal comfort zone is threatened, when self-interest or selfishness is the motivation, even American "pacifists" become material warriors.

Ok, but we are talking minor interuption with major stoppage. Stop the oil flow, stop the food. If this happens and the "on hand supply estimate is 1.5 days....we are not going to have some inconvenienced people running around. We will have starving fucking lunatics. Of course, if it's effects are regional then the damge can be minimized. But on a national scope....hurricane looting will seem like playground stuff.

[Rock Island Ranger]

Just how big of a patrol base could we form up on the farm, anyway, Padre?

Assuming people bring food, we can handle a fair boat load. I can feed my clan up to 6 months right now and provide electricity for 4 hours a day for a year. Food is the issue. Frankly....its open and available but BYOF. Lot of cattle in the area would end up as meat. As well as deer, and anything else with a wing or fur.

[Chiron]

IMO< we (Americans) will never defeat the terrorist: until they change thier belief that they have to die for allha to a belief that they must live for allha.

The Quran in Sura 9 it sums it up. They will kill infidels for ever...

I always wondered why they don't attack China.....no religion...is there? They know the Little yellow bastards would enslave their asses in a week.

Muslims always say you may be our enemy but when your enemy is mine then we fight together. Plus China is a BILLION + people. Who ever picks the fight with China has balls.

[Chiron]

I can't wait until all of the oil runs dry and we can leave the Middle East as a giant third world region with no source of income. Then the real fun will begin as they realize that they need America in order to survive.

Imagine when the Saudis run out of oil and then we end up with the worlds greatest population of wahabis running around looking to kill something....

That's when the range gets hottest!

[hobbit]

Unfortunately, many of our contemporary generals aren't nearly so insightful.

What is the basis for this statement?

Of the many dissertations I could cite, I rather like Victor Davis Hanson's take on the matter:

"Currently, there are many retired generals appearing in frenetic fashion on television. Sometimes they hype their recent books, or, as during the three-week war, offer sharp interviews about our supposed strategic and operational blunders in Iraq — imperial hubris, too few troops, wrong war, wrong place, and other assorted lapses.

Apart from the ethical questions involved in promoting a book or showcasing a media appearance during a time of war by offering an "inside" view unknown to others of the supposedly culpable administration of the military, what is striking is the empty nature of these controversies rehashed ad nauseam.

Imagine that, as we crossed the Rhine, retired World War II officers were still harping, in March, 1945, about who was responsible months during Operation Cobra for the accidental B-17 bombing, killing, and wounding of hundreds of American soldiers and the death of Lt. Gen. Leslie McNair; or, in the midst of Matthew Ridgeway's Korean counteroffensives, we were still bickering over MacArthur's disastrous intelligence lapses about Chinese intervention that caused thousands of casualties. Did the opponents of daylight bombing over Europe in 1943 still damn the theories of old Billy Mitchell, or press on to find a way to hit Nazi Germany hard by late 1944?

So we know the nature of these weary debates. Both sides offer reasonable arguments. Fine. But let us not fool ourselves any longer that each subsequent "exposé" and leak by some retired general, CIA agent, or State Department official — inevitably right around publication date — offers anything newer, smarter, or much more ethical in this dark era that began on September 11.

What we need, then, are not more self-appointed ethicists, but far more humility and recognition that in this war nothing is easy. Choices have been made, and remain to be made, between the not very good and the very, very bad. Most importantly, so far, none of our mistakes has been unprecedented, fatal to our cause or impossible to correct.

So let us have far less self-serving second-guessing, and far more national confidence that we are winning — and that radical Islamists and their fascist supporters in the Middle East are soon going to lament the day that they ever began this war."