How F***ed up was it?

[uberdave]

Since I left the Army in the early 80's I'm not familiar with the details. However, it seems to be common knowledge that readiness in the Army, and the rest of the military, declined in the Clinton years. I was wondering if forum members had any personal stories that they want to post as to how f***ed up things were in the 90's. It may not be as relevant to the members who are Rangers as I imagine they would be among the last to be impacted by budget restraints. Also, did anyone serving at the time notice any change after Bush got elected. (Prior to 9/11 which changed everything of course) If the moderators think this is a BS topic, please delete.

[SkyShark]

I'll tell you one. I am still pissed about it to this day. When I was at Bragg (94 to 96) towards the later. We didn't have enough money in the "budget" for training supplies. So during a field problem and the Brigade was out there yelling bang bang at each other and throwing pine cones at each other as grenades. Not enough money in the budget for blanks and batteries for the miles gear. Also not enough money for the trainng grenades or arty simulators. At least that is what they told us. To this day I am still pissed that we had to train like that.

[MrsDocMac]

Not in the nineties I know, but possibly pertaining to the latter part of your question. When I first got to my reserve unit in '01 it was ridiculous. We were slotted for twice of what we had, and half of what we had didn't even work. The sad part is in '03 when I was mobilized with a unit out of Macon, GA (377 QM) it wasn't any better. Of course, that unit was so fucked up that we got de-mobilized after 3MONTHS of not being at %100 for medical and such to go to Iraq. The entire chain was replaced and half the unit discharged due to various reasons, none of them good. So while I didn't enter the military till after the current Administration was in office, I see no change whatsoever on the reserve side for the last 5 1/2 years.

My husband on the other hand being active duty has seen a huge difference. I've seen TA-50 he "acquired" from previous units that don't even compare to what he has now. Pictures form Kosovo for example show him with a ratty old ruck barely hanging together and a kevlar with the cover all fucked up. You look at pics of him now and all his shit is top of the line. Now whether or not that has to do with his location then vs. now I'm not sure. Either way I am happy to see this vast improvement in his gear as it allows the soldiers to be more capable of doing their job instead of worrying if the 550 cord and 100 mph tape is going to keep their shit together...

But that's just my .02.

I will now go to the kitchen and make sammiches.

[Bugsy]

Since I left the Army in the early 80's I'm not familiar with the details. However, it seems to be common knowledge that readiness in the Army, and the rest of the military, declined in the Clinton years. I was wondering if forum members had any personal stories that they want to post as to how f***ed up things were in the 90's. It may not be as relevant to the members who are Rangers as I imagine they would be among the last to be impacted by budget restraints. Also, did anyone serving at the time notice any change after Bush got elected. (Prior to 9/11 which changed everything of course) If the moderators think this is a BS topic, please delete.

Maybe its just me but my first reaction concerning your question as to how screwed up you felt things were during the Clinton years (though I didn't serve during the Clinton administration but under President Reagan)

Was this...........

ill regardless of the instances when I thought, this is fucked up IMO I learned very quickly that to snivell about them was pointless. I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that those challenges and everyone I experienced in my life was a "CHARACTER" builder which I have tried to carry those learning experiences on how to deal with situations that I disagree with but are beyond my ability to control with me to this very day.

Why you would want to start a thread snivelling about how bad you considered things to be is pointless IMO. I would rather think that you would mention that in spite of the difficulties you experienced, whether you felt the chain of command starting at the very top was justified or you thought you had a "better" idea or way of doing things. The military is and will never do things in a manner that pleases everyone, or even most soldiers at certian times. But as a soldier we carry out our orders and do what we're tasked to do.

I would think that it would be more PRODUCTIVE to mention how in spite of how Fucked up you felt things were you drove on and carried out your orders or complyed with your chain of command having become a stronger man as a result of it.

There can be a case of disagreement with Donald Rumsfield's policies, but is it productive in this forum to snivell about it, I don't think so.

I once heard while serving at Regiment that in order to become a good and effective leader you must first learn to follow and carry out your orders.

Snivelling about'em is certainly not tollerated nor encouraged by any means in the Rangers bud, nor do I want to hear about you're snivelling...

OR YOUR ENCOURAGEMENT FOR OTHERS TO DO SO IN MY AO!!!

I bet you think my statement was fucked up too

[uberdave]

Ranger Bugsy, you've got my line of questioning completely wrong. Referring to Skysharks posting, obviously they adapted to the lack of funding and perfomed training. The military will always make do with what they have. But, do you really think that yelling bang bang and throwing pine cones is good training? I don't. Otherwise we should stop wasting our time on live fires and MILES equipment and just throw dirt clods at each other. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Rangers a first class unit because their training is realistic? I was mainly interested in whether people were able to notice changes in the training/morale of the armed forces after Bush was elected and what specifically they saw. I think that the postings have shown some evidence that there were real changes made that increased the readiness of the armed forces.

[uberdave]

I stand corrected borebrush, drive on.

[Rock Island Ranger]

It was fucked up.
Budget cuts caused serious problems with fuel for Armor, Brads, trucks to get to the field. Armor had to be "Flatbed Hauled" to the field, set up, and fired, could not drive them. Not enough fuel.
Live Fires were plecebo at best. Getting qualified was a joke.
Brad Crews were at an all time low for Table 12 qualifications. Whole Battalions were "red" status.

Manpower cuts were demorlaizing and several units were moth balled.

Some genius came up with the "Enhanced Brigade" concept for the Guard which was great for the guard however, money for active units was cut giving damned precious resources to Guard and Reserve but units like the 5th ID dried up and died.

Clinton was a fucking joke from day one till he stole the furniture when he left.

[MrsDocMac]

Clinton was a fucking joke from day one till he stole the furniture when he left.

And all the W's Padre! :D :D :D

[Darksaga]

In many instances we were running on 1/3 staff or less while trying to maintain operational tempo. Due to the staffing problems we had people on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week for over 6 months.

Parts were being canabilized left and right to keep some sort of readiness. It was nuts. The supply clerks were getting Naval Achievement Medals for saving money. They "saved" money by not requesting parts/ supplies or putting the request on such a low priority that the Pope would convert to Judaism before we recieved it.

[Jim]

We can snivel all we want about the Clinton years......the Carter years were 10 times worse!

Agree!!!