Ferguson, MO

[RangerX]

Maybe it is just Missouri Spring...get it?

you are a sick, sick man. I think that is why we love you so...

[RangerX]

Impertinent thought - I bet all the meth slinging biker gangs in Missouri are loving all these "distractions" in Ferguson right now.

[Jim]

New York Times: Autopsy Shows Michael Brown Was Struck at Least 6 Times

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us ... 1&referrer

[Silverback]

I DO NOT think the current reaction in Ferguson is warranted nor acceptable. I agree it is mob rule and should be dealt with.

ETA: Current reaction = The rioting

Now the typical approach of using black on black crime to somehow justify or explain away an investigation is backwards. The fact that "those people kill each other all the time. " has nothing to do with the most current inicdent. Each separate event should be evaluated and dealt with individually.

I agree SB. I'm not trying to justify any of it by those statements, just voicing my frustration of the media and the likes of Sharpton fueling such chaos and wondering why if they really cared for young black men being killed why aren't they all over the rest of these murders? To me it's shameful ratings race and financial gain on the blood of an entire city.

I also agree, you might want to sit down for this one, that the police response was completely out of tune and handled disastrously so far, in so much that the rest of America is now perceiving them as the thugs and aggressors and they've pretty much sealed the deal on the over-militarization of police with one fell swoop. They've shown a complete lack of discipline and control and armed up as they are that itself could lead to a fireball if one cop gets hit by random gunfire and the rest let loose similar to what happened in Watertown. Embarrassing to say the least, no other way to put it.

I'm not on anybodies side in this, but since I see kids killing each other so much, believe it or not I do feel for them and wish all these people with the power, money and media attention would actually stand up and care too, and not only when it suits their own needs.

Make sense?

Makes perfect sense...of course now I have to find something else we disagree on.

[cams]

Since the NG has now been called in, which is worse, cops trying to play soldier, or soldiers trying to be cops?

Neither has the proper training to fit the others role and yet here we are. Will the NG be in Class B's and armed only with sidearms as citizens would prefer to see their police, or kitted up and with even more armored vehicles?

[Silverback]

Since the NG has now been called in, which is worse, cops trying to play soldier, or soldiers trying to be cops?

Neither has the proper training to fit the others role and yet here we are. Will the NG be in Class B's and armed only with sidearms as citizens would prefer to see their police, or kitted up and with even more armored vehicles?

Actually, if you remember the old days we used to practice crowd control and riot formations. I have to assume that the people who control them thought to take the time and trained them. Escalation of force has been a huge problem of late.

[Jim]

Escalation of force has been a huge problem of late.

Always an understatement, Dan.

[Silverback]

Cannot tell if this is Missouri or Baghdad.

[Silverback]

Hmmm...looks like a "thug".

[cams]

Since the NG has now been called in, which is worse, cops trying to play soldier, or soldiers trying to be cops?

Neither has the proper training to fit the others role and yet here we are. Will the NG be in Class B's and armed only with sidearms as citizens would prefer to see their police, or kitted up and with even more armored vehicles?

Actually, if you remember the old days we used to practice crowd control and riot formations. I have to assume that the people who control them thought to take the time and trained them. Escalation of force has been a huge problem of late.

I remember the old foot stomp, leg drag and yell. I hope they've at least changed it up a bit since then.

No question the police in this case made possibly an irreparable mistake by not remembering that it's much easier to escalate, than to de-escalate a situation. Patience should never be discounted when someone's pissed off, let them burn themselves out and while they do use that time to think through the best options instead of charging in head first and becoming part of the problem.

[RangerX]

Apparently the number of anarchist/Occupy Whatever/external instigators in the Ferguson AO is growing rapidly, with most of them crawling out from under their rocks at night to stir up shit.

Honestly, IMLTHO local LE should get on the PA systems and announce to the locals they have open season on those fuckers.

[al_2ndWolfhounds]

I remember the old foot stomp, leg drag and yell. I hope they've at least changed it up a bit since then.

No question the police in this case made possibly an irreparable mistake by not remembering that it's much easier to escalate, than to de-escalate a situation. Patience should never be discounted when someone's pissed off, let them burn themselves out and while they do use that time to think through the best options instead of charging in head first and becoming part of the problem.

Summer of 1967 I was stationed at Ft. Benning and got all the shuffle foot training they could pack into our schedule. The National guard and the 82nd Airborne had already been sent into Detroit for the riots. If more troops were needed they were going to send companies of Infantry Officer Candidates next. Luckily we were not needed.

In 1970 I was part of the active Army Evaluation team that was sent to inspect units of the Ohio National Guard after the Kent State incident. At that time the riot control equipment and training provided to the Ohio Guard was better than we had. Ultimately it comes down to sufficient practice under stress/duress.

Even today I would expect very few have the proper training and preparation to handle these situations.


QRT was here

[centermass]

As far as my feelings on Ron Johnson, he's turned out to be a complete and total embarrassment to anyone in LE.

With regards to my quote here earlier, re: Captain Johnson, the Chief in this op ed, mirrored my exact thoughts.

An Open Letter to Captain Ronald S. Johnson

I have to call you out.

I don’t care what the media says. I expect them to get it wrong and they often do. But I expect you as a veteran law enforcement commander—talking about law enforcement—to get it right.

Unfortunately, you blew it. After days of rioting and looting, last Thursday you were given command of all law enforcement operations in Ferguson by Governor Jay Nixon. St. Louis County PD was out, you were in. You played to the cameras, walked with the protestors and promised a kinder, gentler response. You were a media darling. And Thursday night things were better, much better.

But Friday, under significant pressure to do so, the Ferguson Police released the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown. At the same time the Ferguson Police Chief released a video showing Brown committing a strong-arm robbery just 10 minutes before he was confronted by Officer Darren Wilson.

Many don’t like the timing of the release of the video. I don’t like that timing either. It should have been released sooner. It should have been released the moment FPD realized that Brown was the suspect.Captain Johnson, your words during the day on Friday helped to fuel the anger that was still churning just below the surface. St. Louis County Police were told to remain uninvolved and that night the rioting and looting began again. For much too long it went on mostly unchecked. Retired St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch tweeted that your “hug-a-looter” policy had failed.

Boy did it.

And your words contributed to what happened Friday night and on into the wee hours of Saturday. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, you said the following regarding the release of the video: “There was no need to release it,” Johnson said calling the reported theft and the killing entirely different events.

Well Captain, this veteran police officer feels the need to respond. What you said is, in common police vernacular—bullshit. The fact that Brown knew he had just committed a robbery before he was stopped by Officer Wilson speaks to Brown’s mindset. And Captain, the mindset of a person being stopped by a police officer means everything, and you know it.

Let’s consider a few examples:
On February 15, 1978 Pensacola Police Officer David Lee conducted a vehicle check. He didn’t know what the sole occupant of the vehicle had recently done, but the occupant did. Who was he? Serial killer Ted Bundy. Bundy attempted to disarm Lee. Lee was able to retain his firearm and eventually took Bundy into custody.

On April 19, 1995 Oklahoma State Trooper Charlie Hangar stopped a vehicle for minor traffic violations. He didn’t know that 90 minutes earlier the traffic violator, Timothy McVeigh, killed 168 people with a truck bomb at the Murrah Federal Building. But McVeigh sure knew it, didn’t he? Fortunately, given his training and experience Hangar was able to take McVeigh into custody for carrying a concealed firearm. It was days later before it was determined that McVeigh was responsible for the bombing.

On May 31, 2003 then-rookie North Carolina police officer, Jeff Postell, arrested a man digging in a trash bin on a grocery store parking lot—an infraction that would rise to about the level of jaywalking. Postell didn’t know that he had just captured Eric Rudolph, the man whom years earlier had killed and injured numerous people with bombs and was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list.

So now, let’s consider Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson’s stop of Michael Brown. Apparently Wilson didn’t know that Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery. But Brown did! And that Captain, is huge.

Allegedly, Brown pushed Wilson and attempted to take Wilson’s gun. We’re also being told that Officer Wilson has facial injuries suffered during the attempt by Brown to disarm him. Let’s assume for a moment those alleged acts by Brown actually occurred. Would Brown have responded violently to an officer confronting him about jaywalking? Maybe, but probably not. Is it more likely that he would attack an officer believing that he was about to be taken into custody for a felony strong-arm robbery? Absolutely.

Officer Wilson survived the encounter with Brown as did Lee, Hangar, and Postell. Michael Brown didn’t survive and it’s too soon to say if Officer Wilson’s use of deadly force was justified and legal. You and I both know that not all officers survive such confrontations. Officers die in incidents like this Captain Johnson, including a couple that I remember from your own organization:

On April 15, 1985 Missouri Trooper Jimmie Linegar was shot and killed by a white supremacist he and his partner stopped at a checkpoint; neither Trooper Linegar nor his partner were aware that the man they had stopped had just been indicted by a federal grand jury for involvement in a neo-Nazi group accused of murder. The suspect immediately exited the vehicle and opened fire on him with an automatic weapon.

Just a month before, Missouri Trooper James M. Froemsdorf was shot and killed—with his own gun—after making a traffic stop. When the Trooper made that stop he didn’t know that the driver was wanted on four warrants out of Texas—But again the suspect knew it.

So Captain Johnson, I guess the mindset and recently committed crimes of the suspects that murdered those Missouri Troopers didn’t mean anything. The stops by the Troopers, as you have said, are entirely different events right?

Bullshit.

Another reason why a lot of police officers generally have never gotten along well with Troopers, State Police, Highway Patrolmen etc.

[RangerX]

Hmmm...looks like a "thug".

Nice selfie taken by the protestor. Shows the mindset.

I'd lay solid money on that being one of those external agitators I mentioned earlier.