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Black 6
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Post by Black 6 »

Tenn-RGR wrote:
DoorGunner wrote:What would happen if one of them did it to the Holy Bible..........
Are you asking if we would turn into a bunch of sniveling whining bitches, or are you asking if it would even make the news?
Who says they dont already do this to the Bible. Its still a book, just like the Quran, its a book.
You must understand, it is not just a book. To them it is the word of God on paper. It is as if God himself put the words on the pages of the Quran they are holding, not the publishing company that printed it. You can find the same mentality in some Christian churches here in the US. Just place a Bible on the ground in front of a congragation and stand on it. You will get some that don't care, but there will be others in the congragation that belive you have defiled the Bible. Will they jump up and start a riot yelling for your blood? Probally not, but they will be offended.
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Creeping Death
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Post by Creeping Death »

Black 6 wrote:
Tenn-RGR wrote:
DoorGunner wrote:What would happen if one of them did it to the Holy Bible..........
Are you asking if we would turn into a bunch of sniveling whining bitches, or are you asking if it would even make the news?
Who says they dont already do this to the Bible. Its still a book, just like the Quran, its a book.
You must understand, it is not just a book. To them it is the word of God on paper. It is as if God himself put the words on the pages of the Quran they are holding, not the publishing company that printed it. You can find the same mentality in some Christian churches here in the US. Just place a Bible on the ground in front of a congragation and stand on it. You will get some that don't care, but there will be others in the congragation that belive you have defiled the Bible. Will they jump up and start a riot yelling for your blood? Probally not, but they will be offended.
And I am one of those. Sorry, but I don't adhere to that line of thinking - "the flag is just a piece of cloth", etc. etc. etc.

How many here would monkey stomp some hippie for burning our flag in their presense? It's just a piece of cloth afterall. Or is it? No, it isn't.

To those who believe, the Bible, and yes the Quran too, is most certainly NOT just a book. But feel free to destroy all the copies of the Quran you want. I gives a damn.
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abnhawk
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Post by abnhawk »

Hell, the first thing I wondered about when I read the story was what his shot groups looked like.

The mofo I'd like to smack in the back of the head, is the guy in one of the pictures kissing the Quran while in uniform. I'm all about making nice with the locals, but I wonder if they even appreiciated one of the infidels kissing their book. I've only been to Iraq once, but it seemed to me like we did a lot of "walking on eggshells" to appease the locals in order to prevent "creating" insurgents.

I say give the sniper a written counseling statement for failing to properly police call the range, and send back out to the line.
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

Tenn-RGR wrote:The SSG fucked up, we all get that. He should be punished for what he did and the punishment should fit the crime. I just hope he doesnt get overpunished because of the publicity of his actions.
I always let my squad leaders know that "Every decision you make can have a strategic impact". Some of them thought I was overstating the implications of their decisions. I also did not allow cameras on objectives or on missions in general. Some of the Squad leaders thought I was being Draconian.

I guess the morale is: "You don't know until you know" aka: "Hindsight is better than 20/20"
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PocketKings
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Post by PocketKings »

Silverback wrote:
Tenn-RGR wrote:The SSG fucked up, we all get that. He should be punished for what he did and the punishment should fit the crime. I just hope he doesnt get overpunished because of the publicity of his actions.
I always let my squad leaders know that "Every decision you make can have a strategic impact". Some of them thought I was overstating the implications of their decisions. I also did not allow cameras on objectives or on missions in general. Some of the Squad leaders thought I was being Draconian.

I guess the morale is: "You don't know until you know" aka: "Hindsight is better than 20/20"
That's exactly right. The smallest perceived misstep is promulgated by the media, misread by the populace, filtered through personal and cultural filters and then spit back out as indicative of the whole rather than the aberration of one.
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Post by Horned Toad »

PocketKings wrote: That's exactly right. The smallest perceived misstep is promulgated by the media, misread by the populace, filtered through personal and cultural filters and then spit back out as indicative of the whole rather than the aberration of one.
hmmm that gets applied to the US and our soldiers but islam get a free pass and we just say it was some extremist
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

Horned Toad wrote:
PocketKings wrote: That's exactly right. The smallest perceived misstep is promulgated by the media, misread by the populace, filtered through personal and cultural filters and then spit back out as indicative of the whole rather than the aberration of one.
hmmm that gets applied to the US and our soldiers but islam get a free pass and we just say it was some extremist
There has been no claim of fairness...it's just a reality of the battlefield
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DoorGunner
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Post by DoorGunner »

Silverback wrote:
Horned Toad wrote:
PocketKings wrote: That's exactly right. The smallest perceived misstep is promulgated by the media, misread by the populace, filtered through personal and cultural filters and then spit back out as indicative of the whole rather than the aberration of one.
hmmm that gets applied to the US and our soldiers but islam get a free pass and we just say it was some extremist
There has been no claim of fairness...it's just a reality of the battlefield
That's the problem, we need to tell them to fuck off, deal with the SSgt. and be done with it
I get tired of their pissing and moaning and I get tired of our warm and fuzzy bullshit. They take our money without question, they take our troops protection because they are incapable.
They just need to shut the fuck up. " Hammond said to tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers." Oh cut the shit! "Soldiers" what happened, I thought one was involved.
Another military official kissed a Quran and presented it as "a humble gift" to the tribal leaders. I want to vomit!
Sorry SB, but I do feel better. It's been all pent up in me..........
Last edited by DoorGunner on May 21st, 2008, 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Horned Toad »

Silverback wrote:
Horned Toad wrote:
PocketKings wrote: That's exactly right. The smallest perceived misstep is promulgated by the media, misread by the populace, filtered through personal and cultural filters and then spit back out as indicative of the whole rather than the aberration of one.
hmmm that gets applied to the US and our soldiers but islam get a free pass and we just say it was some extremist
There has been no claim of fairness...it's just a reality of the battlefield
I have long thought that the US government has been weak in the propaganda war. This is just a good example. For having the world best trained and most advanced military I can’t believe our government can’t realize the war expands beyond shooting bullets. Or if they do and they think their current strategy of appeasement is effective they need some better people in charge.
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Post by RTO »

Horned Toad wrote:
Silverback wrote:
Horned Toad wrote: hmmm that gets applied to the US and our soldiers but islam get a free pass and we just say it was some extremist
There has been no claim of fairness...it's just a reality of the battlefield
I have long thought that the US government has been weak in the propaganda war. This is just a good example. For having the world best trained and most advanced military I can’t believe our government can’t realize the war expands beyond shooting bullets. Or if they do and they think their current strategy of appeasement is effective they need some better people in charge.
Vote for B. O. for change! :shock: :lol:

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PocketKings
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Post by PocketKings »

There's nothing fair in life. There is a certain benfit to acting to other's perceptions. It doesn't make you weak, in fact, just the opposite. It provides a level of comfort and perceived compliance which can then be exploited for your own objectives. It's not appeasement, it's concealment. You know that saying 'dress for the job you want?' Well, that's the same concept. It's a game that we have been getting beat at because we think we are owed it.

Our enemies have learned this lesson long ago. We still want to be the loud, obnoxious ones getting our way through force. As the world flattens we need to be a whole lot more savvy in our attitudes.
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

Horned Toad wrote:
Silverback wrote:
Horned Toad wrote: hmmm that gets applied to the US and our soldiers but islam get a free pass and we just say it was some extremist
There has been no claim of fairness...it's just a reality of the battlefield
I have long thought that the US government has been weak in the propaganda war. This is just a good example. For having the world best trained and most advanced military I can’t believe our government can’t realize the war expands beyond shooting bullets. Or if they do and they think their current strategy of appeasement is effective they need some better people in charge.
I would venture to guess that you won't run into a lot of guys that say "the American Forces in Iraq appease the enemy". Most of us (Iraq veterans) understand that the days of "total annihilation" are long gone in Iraq. What we are doing now is trying to create a stable environment for the Iraqi government to begin policing their own country.

It's cool to hang out, drink beer and talk about kicking ass, but when it comes down to it, kicking ass is the smaller part of the daily mission (in both theaters). Sure we get to kick ass from time to time, but the fact of the matter is that most of our time we spend executing information operations and trying to sway public opinion in our favor (We are marketing).
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Post by DoorGunner »

"trying to sway public opinion in our favor (We are marketing).[/quote]


Who's public opinion? I ask that in all ernest. You guys have been there, I haven't. I sway with what's said here to the multiple readings I do. To be honest about it, I don't see any good public opinion from either side. Here (meaning US ) I don't expect much at this point. From them, they should be kissing our ass or just go back to the stone age and fight amongst each other. Take our troops, money and leave.
I don't do things for people looking for someone to kiss my ass but I do expect a little respect. Not a public spanking.

Okay SB, I just read the other forum comment on Success in Iraq. I humbly stand corrected. :wink:
A Veteran is someone, who at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for the amount of, "Up to and including my Life." This is Honor, and there are way to many people in this country that no longer understand it!

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Darksaga
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Post by Darksaga »

Horned Toad wrote:
I have long thought that the US government has been weak in the propaganda war.
The official stance of the US government is that it does not engage in propaganda..... :roll:

Draw from that what you will.
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