Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

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Silverback
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by Silverback »

How many Americans supported the maltreatment of POWs in Vietnam?
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by fatboy »

Maltreatment vs torture is what it all boils down to. What our society apparently considers torture to be doesn't really qualify on the low end (stress positions? Give me a fookin break). Some of the more "enhanced" methods would be closer, especially from a mental standpoint.
As far as apologies being deserved, when they tell us that they're sorry for killing our innocent citizens, forcing us to come to their countries and depose their governments that they allowed to stay in power for decades, and then thank us for helping to bring them into a new modern era, then just maybe we can discuss apologies.
In the meantime, I vote for the US punitive expedition machine to gear up for the next rounds of as the world turns. No nation building, no olive branch of peace, just old fashioned American ass kickings until the world leaves us alone.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by Lefty »

Silverback wrote:How many Americans supported the maltreatment of POWs in Vietnam?
I cannot give accurate numbers, but based on the demonstrations I saw and the media coverage at the time, a great many Americans supported the maltreatment of US POWs held by NVN.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by rangerjd »

Lefty wrote:
Silverback wrote:How many Americans supported the maltreatment of POWs in Vietnam?
I cannot give accurate numbers, but based on the demonstrations I saw and the media coverage at the time, a great many Americans supported the maltreatment of US POWs held by NVN.
Ask Jane Fonda, maybe she knows the numbers.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by Silverback »

If a person practices ethical relativism there is no right or wrong, merely a world of muted grey tones. My stance is simple and easily stated, torture is torture and torture is wrong.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

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Silverback wrote:If a person practices ethical relativism there is no right or wrong, merely a world of muted grey tones. My stance is simple and easily stated, torture is torture and torture is wrong.
From my perspective, what is accepted as a definition of "torture"?

Do sleep deprivation, food deprivation, prolonged submersion in water, prolonged exposure to continuous loud noise, infliction of pain (striking, bondage of joints, etc.) without lasting injury, confinement in cramped space, and prolonged sustained continuous harsh questioning under the above conditions qualify?
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by Silverback »

"Torture is the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical pain or suffering by or with the consent of the state authorities for a specific purpose."

Seems to be a reasonable definition.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by Lefty »

Silverback wrote:"Torture is the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical pain or suffering by or with the consent of the state authorities for a specific purpose."
I won't argue with your definition.

But I know a lot of fraternities that are gonna be in a heap of trouble.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

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Silverback wrote:"Torture is the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical pain or suffering by or with the consent of the state authorities for a specific purpose."

Seems to be a reasonable definition.
It seems that most everyone on this site has been tortured at one time or another, our problem is we volunteered for it. :lol:
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by Jim »

rangerjd wrote:
Silverback wrote:"Torture is the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical pain or suffering by or with the consent of the state authorities for a specific purpose."

Seems to be a reasonable definition.
It seems that most everyone on this site has been tortured at one time or another, our problem is we volunteered for it. :lol:
Think our issue is we volunteered for it I think there is a degree of difference. Mostly intent. I (like most of us) did RS, SERE, etc... Those were similar, but not torture,
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by rangertough »

rangerjd wrote:
It seems that most everyone on this site has been tortured at one time or another, our problem is we volunteered for it. :lol:
So did the assholes that were in Gitmo.

Before anyone asks, I don't believe they were tortured. By all accounts they were interrogated. I accept that some will disagree. I also accept that the accounts may lack info. Honestly, they received better treatment than they were legally owed.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

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More importantly, they've all had better treatment as our prisoners than what they have given those that were captured by them.
Let's face it- which would cause someone more concern: being held down and having some water sprayed in your face after a few hours of sleep deprivation; or being held down to have your head sawed off after several weeks of rape and beatings?

All in all, I understand that people have issues with the techniques used. I just can't find any fucks to give about it from my end though.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by rangerjd »

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ts-were-e/
According to several members of the Bush administration, to include, George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and others, waterboarding was only conducted on 3 terrorist. The news makes it sound like every terrorist that was captured was waterboarded.
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by rangertough »

rangerjd wrote:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ts-were-e/
According to several members of the Bush administration, to include, George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and others, waterboarding was only conducted on 3 terrorist. The news makes it sound like every terrorist that was captured was waterboarded.
Wouldn't the report that was published by the Dems to point out how much it sucks to not be in power anym...I mean to establish how morally bereft the Repubs are, actually have the stats for all of the interrogations?
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Re: Now Another Idiot Says The CIA Should Apologize

Post by Baseplate »

I have a lot of feelings on this issue but does torture even work? I have tried to read up and most articles say the person being tortured will admit to anything just to get it to stop. SO what is the point? Also The US cannot continue to try and act like the moral police of the world if we are going to continue to commit war crimes ourselves. If you are going to be a human right violator then who in the hell are we to act incensed when we are also violating human rights. I don't give a shit about a terrorist but I do care about how this scars our nation.
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