Promotion Orders

[Musashistudent3108]

Finished a 2 hour meeting with the recruiter today, squaring away paperwork for my projection date for MEPS, and came across something neither of us knew anything about. I am going to go ahead and answer some questions before they are asked, I will try to keep it BLUF as possible just bear with me.

-I was a 2LT commissioned through the ECP into the National Guard where I served as a PL and then an XO
-Prior to this I was an Enlisted Soldier (E-3), then an SMP (Simultaneous Membership Program) Cadet (E-5)
- I never attended AIT because I contracted as an SMP Cadet before I could ship to AIT (yes it happened, please don't question it, yes it was stupid, moving on)
-I gave up my commission in the National Guard to pursue a career as an Enlisted Person in the 75th Ranger Regiment.

Bottom line is: The National Guard promoted me to SGT (E-5) not CDT (E-5) when they did my promotion order into the SMP program. This is standard procedure, it shouldn't be, but that's not up to me. The Recruiting Station Commander is now telling me that unless they do a Reassignment Waiver on me I will have to enlist as an E-5. I can't give up the rank, I already asked. I am not prepared to lead a team, I have neither the experience, the time in service, or the MOS Qualification to lead a team. Not to mention what this would do to my chances of getting into the Regiment. What should I do? Can I do anything? Has anybody else dealt with anything like this? I will still attend RASP even if my chances are slim, I want it too bad to give up without even trying, but if I could somehow end up an E-4 or even an E-3 again I would.

[Jim]

You need to find a more experienced recruiter who can work the system. You are not unique. Never, never quit!

[rangertough]

I think your attitude towards your experience and qualifications is correct and mature. You're not ready. You have potential.

You may not have the experience (yet) but attitude and being self-aware is a much better foundation for leadership than tactical knowledge.

I agree with Jim find a different recruiter.

Tough

[PerryB]

The station will have to run a grade waiver through DA HRC. They will determine your rank. It cannot be determined at a recruiting station.

Perryb

[Musashistudent3108]

UPDATE:

PerryB, an old recruiter friend of mine showed me that according to the form NBG 594-1 because I did not complete the ECP process I revert to the rank held prior to my SMP contract (E-3). Will the Active component recognize that fact? Now they are telling me that they need a DA form 785, which I don't have because I commissioned, I technically completed the program so Cadet Command will not/ cannot write me a 785. However, the refuse to let me go any farther until I provide a record of my disenrollment from Officer Candidate type training, for example which would be kind of like asking me for paperwork proving that I DORed out of Ranger School when I in fact graduated (I am not claiming to have graduated Ranger School, this is just a what if). It's insane.

Not to mention they want a statement from Cadet Command stating that I don't owe them any money. Basically they expect me to hit up someone at Cadet Command and get them to draft a Memo stating that my account is cleared, which it is, but nobody at Cadet Command is going to be willing to draft such a memo about someone they don't know anything about, and frankly I wouldn't blame them.

Is any of this standard procedure, or do they just have their head's up their collective fourth point of contact?

[PerryB]

I have to admit I have no idea what you need to do. If your graduated college then you should be at a minimum a E4. Did you resign your comission? I am really out of my league on this one.

PerryB

[Musashistudent3108]

PerryB,

Yes I resigned my commission. I also left College, because I realized once I completed my degree I would be snatched into the accessions process (only to land back in the National Guard) and by then I would have no way out. If I completed my degree the Guard would have had to pay for OBC, after they paid for OBC they would have never let me resign.

The reasons I resigned are many, but the major one was that I realized that if I didn't at least try to join the Regiment, I would regret it for the rest of my life. There was no career killing eval, and there was no disciplinary action that lead me to resign.

at present my research has told me that I am classified as GNPS, because I was never MOSQ, however my time in service still has to be accounted for. I have been told I will get at least E-3.

The major issue we are working at this time is determining whether I owe any money to Cadet Command or anyone else. This issue is apparently up for debate, even amongst Cadet Command. As I was commissioned they did not file a 785 on me, nor are they willing to do so, they are also not tracking anything on me according to the S-1 rep and HRC rep I spoke to.

[Silverback]

I have extensive experience (6 years so far ) on this very topic and this is my opinion. You cannot legally be issued a 785 because you did not disenroll from an officer producing program. You see the officer producing part was your time at the JUCO, which you completed. Your description of the accessions process is a little misleading. You don't get "snatched" into the branching process you simply participate. Now the part that may have made accessions appear distasteful is that the outcome of the process is based COMPLETELY on your performance.

So as long as you properly terminated your guaranteed reserve forces duty (GRFD) contract before leaving your JUCO you could have competed for active duty. I should add that achieving an active duty assignment is extremely competitive (50% or lower).

Here is my estimation, first you accepted a commission and the responsibility of officership. You knew exactly what that meant but you failed to uphold your end of the agreement. Most likely you couldn't keep yourself together at a real university and started failing. I know the program manager for ECPs at HRC fairly well (his first name is Brad) and if you were separated from the program you must have spoken to him.

Unless you are willing to objectively discuss your situation nobody can help you.

[Silverback]

As far as owing money if you accepted a Scholarship while at JUCO or you participated in an Ike Skelton scholarship or Education Assistance Porgram (EAP) at the University, you will owe money. The amount should be reported via a DA Form 5315 from DFAS.

[Silverback]

How weird would this be if you ended up being one of my Cadets????

[Musashistudent3108]

Silverback

I am assuming you work at Marion sir, I am actually a GMC Alum so you're pretty close.


You are right about my situation, sort of. Long story short, I didn't want the end bad enough for it to justify the means.
I just got off the phone with your contact as a matter of fact. Talk about my situation objectively? What kind of information are you looking for specifically?

[Silverback]

Silverback

I am assuming you work at Marion sir, I am actually a GMC Alum so you're pretty close.


You are right about my situation, sort of. Long story short, I didn't want the end bad enough for it to justify the means.
I just got off the phone with your contact as a matter of fact. Talk about my situation objectively? What kind of information are you looking for specifically?

By objectively I mean drop the victim angle. You use a lot of "It happened to me" type language instead of owning where you are at.

[Musashistudent3108]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I believe (and I am not alone by any means in believing this) that the Early Commission Program is a scam. Even my SMI's used to tell my class that the program existed for almost purely anachronistic reasons. The program sucks a full commitment out of a future Officer for half the cost to the Army (or at least a seriously diminished one considering that EAP hasn't been around as long as the program has). The worst part of all it attracts the truly motivated. Kids who want to get out there and do things, but they are just that, kids. Kids who would probably do much better at LDAC if they were given a few more years to mature, they are also the youngest at LDAC, and yet they tend to out perform their 4 year counter parts in several events. Which leads me to wonder. What if these cadets had two more years of training? What would they be capable of then? Not to mention the fact that it sticks a Reserve or National Guard PSG with an unqualified PL who can't even legally have a beer, for two years while he/she finishes their degree. That PL then sits around and takes up space at drill because they aren't qualified to do much. They take on as much as they possibly can, but the fact remains that they are not qualified for the slot they fill. They can't deploy, or attend schools, or get promoted. So what is the point? They watch other young PL's do these things, advance their careers, and they are stuck. It's like limbo. I would have rather spent two years at LDAC.

You are right, what happened to me was because of my decisions. But I was tired of complaining, I was tired of hating everything I was doing, and hating every moment I was awake knowing where I was heading. So I made another decision, a decision to stop complaining about the decisions I had made and pursue something I really wanted, something I wanted to bad I can't even express it in words. So now I am here. Because when I am old and a civilian again, I won't have the regret of never having tried to join the Regiment.

[Jim]

Young man, you need to be more introspective. Let me explain a few things: 1) Ranger Silverback is one of the most honest men I know. He is a combat infantryman, and a graduate of the Ranger Course. Why don't you call him Ranger? 2) Ranger Silverback is a staff member of the ROTC program at University of Alabama at.Tuscaloosa. 3) He is trying to help get you squared away. My view is that you are not at all taking a good look at yourself. You need to be introspective and admit that you made mistakes. The question I would ask is what are you doing to correct yourself?

[Silverback]

To be honest, I did not read your entire post. You can get angry and you can act indignant but the bottom line is You QUIT! You quit on yourself and you quit on the Soldiers that you were entrusted with. ECP is not a perfect program but it serves a purpose.

My only point was, if you were brought to a full stop by a program that gave you exactly what you were promised...what happens when you encounter chaos and confusion.

You are assuming that you deserve a shot at entering OUR fraternity a fraternity who's members have earned their membership through fire, pain, and loss. A fraternity that since the middle ages has sought out and embraced the most hopeless causes available. Knowingly entering into battle with an enemy in their homeland on their terms. Often outnumbered and under the assumption of sure death....they/we marched forward. We are not stopped by chaos and we are most assuredly our own worst critics.

Nobody deserves to be part of our fraternity but many have earned their way in....STOP TALKING AND START DOING.