Success Rate of Officers about the same as Battalion Boys?

[archangelranger]

No matter how dumb a new twoey-looie may seem, he IS at least 3-4 years older than your average Battboy going through. He was a senior in high school before the Battboys even got there. It does make a difference.

The average 2LT is a fuck-up, but his biggest sin is normally that of enthusiasm. He tries to take a little knowledge a long way, and it tends to bite him in the butt. The smart ones learn from the early humiliations what their job REALLY is... to provide top cover and the authority for the NCOs to do their jobs.

The other thing is that OBC LTs have spent the past 4 months in a somewhat-less-than-demanding environment training their asses off for a shot at Ranger School. Tabless bitches in Battalion are being toughened in a different way, by the Spec 4 Mafia. The young LT is less likely to be intimidated by a Ranger Sergeant because he knows he is still an officer, even when he is not wearing his rank. Try as I might, I was never able to stop my squad members from calling me "sir".

Finally, "tabless bitch" is not a completely derrogatory term. It takes a considerable amount of sand (at least it used to) to reach that vaunted position. It meant you had made it through RIP, survived Battalion life at the bottom of the food chain, and had impressed your platoon sergeant enough that he was willing to risk wasting coveted vacation time in a school environment on you when you really should be pulling your weight at Battalion like everyone else.

Similar attrition/graduation rates between Battboys and IOBC grads can't really be said to be a correlation because they come from two completely different sources. I would view it more as a coincidence. There is no way to rationally compare the results because no successful Battboy goes through Ranger School as an officer, and no tabbed officer winds up going through later as a Battboy.

RLTW

[Ranger Bill]

Similar attrition/graduation rates between Battboys and IOBC grads can't really be said to be a correlation because they come from two completely different sources. I would view it more as a coincidence. There is no way to rationally compare the results because no successful Battboy goes through Ranger School as an officer, and no tabbed officer winds up going through later as a Battboy. RLTW

The issue is not if there is a correlation, but a difference. And the only way to rationally compare is based on graduations rates and re-cycle rates. Your rantional for not making comparisons is "I'm not you and you're not me." That's true, but it doesn't answer the question and the questions are simple: Who has a better graduation rate? Who has a better no-recycle rate? My personal experience is that it doesn't amount to sqaut waht your rank is in Ranger School. Unless things have seriously changed, Ranger School is the most equal opportunity program in the world.

[archangelranger]

I don't argue that, Bill. In fact, that was part of the answer set. Young hooahs are not retarded; they can see a rank shadow on a collar as well as anyone else. Because they are pros, "Sir" was a knee-jerk response to anything an officer ranger student said, even when it was the stupidest thing ever to grace human ears. We were all treated equally by the RIs, but even in private conversation, military courtesy was always observed.

Another thing that has not been well explained in this discussion is the "cooperate and graduate" dimension of the school. Young hooahs bring certain crucial elements to the table that LTs do not, and vice-versa. My experience was that once the whiners were weeded out or peered (which, in my humble experience, is a MUCH bigger wake-up call for a 2LT than for a hooah; a young hooah will say "fuck those assholes", whereas most LTs are shattered by the idea that the men don't see them as the reincarnation of Audie Murphy), there was a pretty strong alliance between LTs and hooahs.

I sort of see this as a "Which goes faster, the car or the wheels?" kind of question. The answer is that sometimes the engine blows out, sometimes the tire goes flat. The bottom line is that they arrive at the destination together. When they stand at graduation, Not a one of them is thinking "I am an officer", "I am a lieutenant", or "I am an enlisted man". Everyone is thinking "We are Rangers."

[Chiron]

In my class on the total only like 44% passed. I don’t recall the numbers regarding Os and Es. I do however remember that most officers that forgot rank and became friends with the Batt boys made it. Both learn from one another however the Batt boys will get you through the suck! They live it every day. Officers contribute other ideas as well.

One thing is for sure that’s that when you think “We are Rangersâ€

[rgrjoe175]

This is a interesting thread. In my class the every battboy was assigned a Ranger buddy that was a 2LT from Westpoint. Mine was a Field Artillery O. I figured that was reasonable since I was 13F. The interesting part was it seemed that the battboys carried the Os. I know mine was a pain in the ass short little fucker. His problem was he could not get over the fact that he was a O. As I told him, dude your in Ranger school there is no rank. I cant even count the times I told that guy to go fuck himself when he would tell me to do shit for him when he was not in a leadership position. Several times in Darby he had said he would have me "brought up on charges". I got called into the class tac office once with him at the beginning of the mountains. The class tacs proceed to chew his ass out in front of me, seems he went to them to have me kicked out of the class for not being his bitch...LOL The class tac told him that it was interesting that I had 2 go patrols and he had 2 no gos and that he better start listening to me. I had tried to help the fucker the first two patrols and he told me STFU.

After that conversation he completely changed and started listening. He go all gos after that. He did make the "Charges" comment once in Florida. That night the RI caught me dunking his ass in the swamp and told me to stop... After the graduation, he actually thanked me for helping him. I told him to go fuck himself.

I am sure as shit happy to this day that I did not get recycled. I got all gos and one nogo narrative that ended up a go. The nogo narrative my Ranger buddy was fookin sleeping.

JP

[rgrpuck]

My 1st Ranger Buddy was a 2nd LT West Point guy. We were in Darby on a pretty long movement. We halted for a map check, He sat down on his ruck looked at me and said "Thats it I am quitting". I tried to talk him out of it untill he looked at me and said "you dont understand My father has money I am not like you. I have a future".....

The RI stepped in cause I was getting a little loud.....with a Major minus in hand.....and asked what the problem was......I told him that "this piece of shit wants to quit Sgt " .....He looked at the sorry little bastard that I just wrote off and asked if it was true. He was gone in 15 minutes.

[archangelranger]

I think we have met-
I am currently an ops guy at First Army. I was at Fort Leavenworth for the 28th DIV WARFIGHTER Exercise.

Some officers are punk-ass fools, but the same can be said of enlisted guys. I think the difference is that those NOT in Batt can return to their units with a sheepish grin, say they didn't make it, and still get their company/platoon/squad. Anyone here got the guts to try that at a Ranger Batt?

[rgrpuck]

I think we have met-
I am currently an ops guy at First Army. I was at Fort Leavenworth for the 28th DIV WARFIGHTER Exercise.

Some officers are punk-ass fools, but the same can be said of enlisted guys. I think the difference is that those NOT in Batt can return to their units with a sheepish grin, say they didn't make it, and still get their company/platoon/squad. Anyone here got the guts to try that at a Ranger Batt?

Not a matter of guts .....It just wouldnt happen.

[Ranger Bill]

Come on, someone here has to have access to the stats. What are the recycle and graduation rates for Batt Boys and officers?

[rgrpuck]

Come on, someone here has to have access to the stats. What are the recycle and graduation rates for Batt Boys and officers?

Ok well damn

I was 7and 1 on patrols (mountains)

1st time go

No recycle.

Post your patrol record.


Lowest peer rateing for kicking a 2nd LT in the head for sleeping in FLA.........Went to desert ......graduated 3-88......

[Ranger Bill]

As old memory recalls: 5 and 1 with a lot of spot points for biting the head off a snake at Benning, chewing the legs off a turtle in Mountains, and carrying the resupply chute on the long last march in Florida. No recycle. But damn, I still can't remember anything about peer ratings.

[Horned Toad]

5 and 2 one in desert and one in Florida and I got peered in Florida .
To this day I don’t know why I got a no go in desert, the guy just yelled a lot. Florida was a break in contact on an easy fucking movement, in the day time no less, some fucker took a knee and fell asleep. Then it wasn’t till the last 48 or 24 hrs I got my go, if I remember right.

I think we only had 4 guys in our squad by Florida and they rolled us into another squad in a different Co. Needless to say things didn’t mesh very well.

[Jim Jones]

Col. Chen told our class that Batt boys had the highest first time through percentage, 64% if i recall correctly. I don't know what the officer percentage was, but if they want any kind of career in the infantry, they know they need their tab.

[spanky]

Went from West Point to Airborne school to Ranger school, then Artillery officer basic. 4 and 2 on patrols in Ranger school, no recycle, no peers. However, it must be said that there were relatively few officers in the class (8-78). There were lots of Batt boys in the class and most officers took their cues from them. The company 1SG wound up being some PFC out of 1st Batt, and he was good. I think his name was Don Norman. Personally, I would not have wanted to go through with a class full of officers, especially West Pointers. We probably still lost about half of the officers, and about half of the rest of the class.

Lack of rank in the course is the best thing they could ever have done. It's a small unit leadership course; rank has very little to do with leadership ability. It was the Batt boys that I ran into in Ranger school that really made up my mind that I'd do anything to get into 1st Batt, and luckily, I got that opportunity about 2 years after the school. It cost me career-wise in the artillery, but it was still the best assignment I ever had in the Army.

[KW Driver]

I was 4-4, straight through, peered at 80-84%, mid-squad every time.

I had a pretty bad PLT. day 3/4 they would just basically quit functioning as a PLT, or a SQD, and it would be every man for himself, with a few trustworthy exceptions. It pissed me off too, because I'd catch a NO-GO on day 3 or 4, usually cause I let somebody fuck me, then knuckle down and kick the chit out of all the slackers I caught on a day7-8 patrol. but I got my shit and went straight through...

My Darby peer eval made me laugh. tactical/technical genius, blah, blah, blah, but a raging fucking asshole who I'd never drink beer with, blah, blah, blah...

The RI looks over, says, "You a Batt Boy?"

"Roger Sarn't."

"Don't fucking sweat it, mine said the same shit." with a little smile.

"Roger Sarn't." with a big assed smile.

Look out Desert, here I come, 1 and 0 bitches...then Desert slapped my nuts up into my throat.