IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

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Buzz
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IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Buzz »

IED Shockwaves Inject Hidden Damage in Troops, Study Claims

""The U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs sponsored the study. The doctors urged the VA and the Department of Defense to determine which service members, current and former, were exposed to the waves – and how often – so those men and women can be monitored.""


http://www.nbcnews.com/#/news/military/ ... ims-n29031
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Jim »

Strange!
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by al_2ndWolfhounds »

Interesting article. I wonder what makes shock waves different now than 50 years ago?
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by IEDmagnet »

Six of them, direct hits six times. On scene for many many more. This will be interesting.


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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Silverback »

al_2ndWolfhounds wrote:Interesting article. I wonder what makes shock waves different now than 50 years ago?
50 years ago it was called "blast overpressure and it was thought to be something that could be managed. As a Master Breaches in Regiment I cannot count the number of times I left a training area feeling dizzy.
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by rangertough »

al_2ndWolfhounds wrote:Interesting article. I wonder what makes shock waves different now than 50 years ago?
Silverback wrote:
al_2ndWolfhounds wrote:Interesting article. I wonder what makes shock waves different now than 50 years ago?
I actually wondered that myself. Not to take anything away from the boys today but I would think being at oh say Bastogne and shelled for multiple days would be worse. I worked Route Clearance and I saw plenty of our boys get their bells rung something fierce.

There's an "all over" effect to being in a blast that I think the Army is ignoring. Both dets that I took left me aching all over for a couple of days after. The TBI is definitely the most readily aparent result.

50 years ago it was called "blast overpressure and it was thought to be something that could be managed. As a Master Breaches in Regiment I cannot count the number of times I left a training area feeling dizzy.
As bad as I felt coming off the breaching range it didn't compare to the Gustav Range. The gun team actually fireing the weapon weren't the only ones effected by multiple shots taken over a day.

Tough

Edit* OK I meant to quote both al and SB.
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Lefty »

al_2ndWolfhounds wrote:Interesting article. I wonder what makes shock waves different now than 50 years ago?
Good point. I am no physicist, but I cannot fathom how an explosive shock wave can be different regardless of the types of munitions. The only thing that comes to mind is the direction of the shock wave, whether the angle makes a difference or not. But then troops in all modern wars have been exposed to shock waves from various angles. Maybe I have too much 'battle rattle' and CRS to figure it out.
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Jim »

Silverback wrote:
al_2ndWolfhounds wrote:Interesting article. I wonder what makes shock waves different now than 50 years ago?
50 years ago it was called "blast overpressure and it was thought to be something that could be managed. As a Master Breaches in Regiment I cannot count the number of times I left a training area feeling dizzy.
Excellent point, Dan! Many years ago, I was an Anti-Tank platoon leader in the 2-508. We spent a summer supporting ROTC summer camp at Ft Bragg. We were equipped with 106 mm Recoil-less Rifles. We ran firing ranges, daily. Often, by the end of the week, some of my troopers were affected by the "blast overpressure." Had to rotate the troops frequently.
Last edited by Jim on February 14th, 2014, 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by al_2ndWolfhounds »

Reading things like this reminds me how lucky and blessed I am. In Vietnam I experienced:

1. FSB Ammo Dump blowing within 25 meters of my position.
2. 81mm Mortar Ammo Bunker blowing within 15 meters of my position.
3. 105mm Booby Trap (now called IED) blowing within 5 meters of me, thank God they buried it so deeply.
4. 4.2 Mortar counter battery fire within 5 meters of me in a prone position, luckily 4.2 still didn't have fuse-quick at the time.
5. 8" firing about 4' above my head while I was walking under its trajectory, son of a bitches gave no warning.
6. One of those wooden hand grenades that hit my arm and fell to the ground at my feet, I dove for the ground and rolled away. Rainy season in a rice paddy amazing amount of pressure generated through water no shrapnel got to me.
7. I spent most om my time on the Cambodian Border along the Angel's Wing (closest point of Cambodia to Saigon). I had the pleasure of being within 1 - 1.5 klicks of more than a few Arc-Lights (B-52 2,00 lb bomb strikes. We used the more recent craters for swimming pools when filled with water; no leeches but you had to wear boots due to shrapnel possibility.

Again, I feel very blessed. But it may explain why I've never been quite right since but I do feel like I fit in around here.
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Jim »

al_2ndWolfhounds wrote: Again, I feel very blessed. But it may explain why I've never been quite right since but I do feel like I fit in around here.
Indeed, you do. As do we all!
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Mike11C11B »

I always had a headache after shooting 10-15 120mm mortar rounds. In comparison, 3rd ID would have blast devices (BADs, our 81mm had them) on the muzzles of their 120's due to being mounted on a tracked vehicle. Don't tell me it didn't affect me somehow. I hope they tested blast effects like this.
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Sleepy Doc »

Unfortunately, the crux of the problem is that there is no scientific way to study the effects of this. (the way doctors are trained to look for evidence using a double-blind study model) Let alone the legal implications of such a study, the ethical and moral quagmire is bottomless, even though such a study may give invaluable data. For example; hypothermia, and its effects. Up until the last 30 years or so, most of what we know came from...

wait for it...


WW2 medical experiments done in Nazi Germany!!.. Not to say that Uncle Sugar hasn't done that kind of thing, (Think Tuskeege Study, or atmospheric nuke tests..) but the public tends to frown on it being done wholesale. The best they can do is look at the after affects to try and piece the puzzle together

That being said, yeah, not much has changed as far as the physics. A pressure wave is a pressure wave. However the medical community is starting to take a closer look at those who have experienced one only in the last 10 years, much in the same way they are taking a concussion more seriously. The prevailing school of thought-especially among the military-was a "get up and shake it off" attitude. They are looking at the casualty data coming out of the middle east and realizing that, yeah, something is happening.

For my personal experience, yeah, it does something.... but again, it is problematic to figure out how much of a hit someone is taking at the time. I say this once having been within 15 feet of back blast area for a gustav. I was lucky enough to have heard the warning cry and had seconds to crouch behind a 3 foot berm so I didn't take the full hit, but it still felt like Dan hitting me upside the K-pot with a Louisville slugger. For three days afterward I was bumping into walls and mumbling in swahilli. It was almost like having a 24 hour dunk on.. couldn't think straight or keep a mental focus.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of this. It can only be good.
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by Buzz »

More on the link of TBI and alzheimer's.

""The number of new cases of Alzheimer’s among U.S. veterans is predicted to jump by 423,000 by 2020, Weiner and colleagues estimated in 2013. Of those, 140,000 will be associated with factors specific to the military and lead to as much as $7.8 billion in costs.""

""Studies underway with drug candidates made by Eli Lilly and Roche Holding AG are testing if it’s possible to stave off dementia in healthy people with an inherited genetic mutation that causes Alzheimer’s and whose PET scans reveal early signs of the disease.""

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/vietna ... ar-BBjzyiD
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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

Post by IEDmagnet »

Oh great, something else to look forward to.


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Re: IED Shockwaves and Internal Hidden Injuries

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IEDmagnet wrote:Oh great, something else to look forward to.


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