AR/M4 vs. AK

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C-MAC
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by C-MAC »

Flesh Thorn wrote:I wouldn't mind having one of these custom Saiga 12s ( 12 gauge AK) from Red Jacket Firearms.
Alright. That's just wrong. But I like it. You could be the most popular guy at the range if you buy that.:D
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by Flesh Thorn »

Red Jacket also makes some very nice AK 47's.
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by C-MAC »

vossman wrote:
colt1rgr wrote:
panthersix wrote:AK's are perfect for throwing in the closet, never cleaning and having a butt load of ammo for ready to go out to the redneck range :) I like the former USSR pistols too, tokarev's are cheap and fun, and I like P64's too.
I concur! And here is a little Diddy for us like minded individuals. They are now selling semi-auto only versions of the PPSH-43 SMG for 399.00. These come with 4 x 35 rd magazines and shoots the 7.62x25mm rd. Whats cool about this is this thing, while classified as a carbine is basically a long barrelled pistol that shoots a very bad ass round. The really cool kicker is that 7.62x25mm FMJ ammo is currently going for about $99.75 for a 1,050 rds and $189.42 for 2,100. Thats dirt cheap for a weapon you can cheaply stock ammo for and then throw it into a kit bag in your trunk or under your seat and forget about. I may have to pick one of these up.

Source for these (there are several) can be found in Shotgun News.
I got one already. They are a really well made and good looking gun too. The Poles did a good job. Really the only bad thing is the way you shoot it. It was designed to be a carbine but since the stock is welded closed, it is a pistol. So the sights are not set up for a pistol and it is difficult to aim. But are you really looking for a sharpshooter here? Nope, just one awesome looking pistol that no one else has!

C-MAC, you can never dismiss familiarity. That will make a huge difference. I too was comparing the AR vs. AK and was making the point that you can put different ammo in each and get different results. I'll bet with as much practice with the AK as you have with the AR you will become just as proficient. One really important point you made is you said "ironsights".
I've always been partial to peep sights so the AR wins that on.
You can't deny that the AR has far and away more utility to it. You can snap damn near anything to the top. Even a nice 50 bmg upper (it shoots nice!) so from that stand point, the AR wins out.
Point is, both have merrits and are both great guns otherwise there would not be millions of each made. By them both and you will know for sure. You should be able to get two decent variations and still come under 1000 bucks. No losers there!
Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

You guys get to have all the fun toys. Every time I go to buy a firearm in the People's Republik of NY I have to consult a lawyer. This definitely ain't Burlington, IA. :lol:
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by Baseplate »

Flesh Thorn wrote:I wouldn't mind having one of these custom Saiga 12s ( 12 gauge AK) from Red Jacket Firearms.
They are pretty cool but some of them have a gas tube issue that causes jamming. People get pissed that thier new gun is broke but it is usually a quick and pretty cheap repair
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

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cams wrote:Get a .308 on an AR platform, like the CSM has. Better round, better stopping power and your already familiar with the quick breakdown/clearing procedures/jams etc of the AR.

"Why wait for them to round the corner when you can shoot them thru the walls." :wink:
Ok that sounds perfect. Anything in a .308 is generally awesome. But I am not familiar with CSM- got a link?
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by colt1rgr »

C-MAC wrote:
colt1rgr wrote:I have had AKs, liked them and think every law abiding American (READ "former RANGERS") :wink: should have a folder with several loaded magazines under the seat in their car or in their trunk .................. just in case. :twisted:
"The AK 47. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every motherfucker in the room!"
I guess that leaves USAF with one of those old Colombian Made, bolt action ZB's. :shock: I might as well be standing there holding my junk. :roll:
By your presence on this board you have been "Blessed off on" by the Ranger in the Sky! Proceed to CIF to draw your aforementioned AK C-MAC, "Good Hunting!" :wink: :P
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by colt1rgr »

vossman wrote:
colt1rgr wrote:
panthersix wrote:AK's are perfect for throwing in the closet, never cleaning and having a butt load of ammo for ready to go out to the redneck range :) I like the former USSR pistols too, tokarev's are cheap and fun, and I like P64's too.

I concur! And here is a little Diddy for us like minded individuals. They are now selling semi-auto only versions of the PPSH-43 SMG for 399.00. These come with 4 x 35 rd magazines and shoots the 7.62x25mm rd. Whats cool about this is this thing, while classified as a carbine is basically a long barrelled pistol that shoots a very bad ass round. The really cool kicker is that 7.62x25mm FMJ ammo is currently going for about $99.75 for a 1,050 rds and $189.42 for 2,100. Thats dirt cheap for a weapon you can cheaply stock ammo for and then throw it into a kit bag in your trunk or under your seat and forget about. I may have to pick one of these up.

Source for these (there are several) can be found in Shotgun News.




I got one already. They are a really well made and good looking gun too. The Poles did a good job. Really the only bad thing is the way you shoot it. It was designed to be a carbine but since the stock is welded closed, it is a pistol. So the sights are not set up for a pistol and it is difficult to aim. But are you really looking for a sharpshooter here? Nope, just one awesome looking pistol that no one else has!

Well I am definitely sold then and will be acquiring one (soon as Mrs. COLT # 3 gives me permission to make said purchase :oops: ). I looked at the sights issue and plan to add a reflex sight so that its all weather and night capable as well. 8).
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by colt1rgr »

Flesh Thorn wrote:I wouldn't mind having one of these custom Saiga 12s ( 12 gauge AK) from Red Jacket Firearms.

I have had one now for a couple years and have put approximately 700-800 rds thru it. It absolutely loves and spits out 2 3/4" 00 buck and actually shoots slugs fairly well.

I have about a dozen 0f the five round mags which fit perfectly in an old BREN Gun mag pouch and a few of the 10 rounders (which look cool but are tactically useless unless on the range or a free fire zone). I look to add a couple of the 20 rd drums! :twisted:

I am always accosted by curious onlookers at the range when I whip it out and cops seem to be most curious. I highly recommend it! I've read that it was basically designed for Spetsnaz and that they use it for room clearing. :shock:
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

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GoldCoast wrote:Do your research before you buy one - there is a definite quality difference between makes. I have a shitty Romanian build imported by Century Arms and I am less than impressed with it. I had an Egyptian made AK in Iraq that was awesome. Don't believe the hype. Some are better than others, and they still require maintenance. Different rounds through different barrels yield different results. They're just like any other gun.
I did some additional research. Apparently there is a reason you liked the Egyptian AK so much. AK officiants largely believe that is the best build we American heathens can get our hands on. It appears the ones manufactured by Maadi, especially the ones imported by Steyr in the early 1980's (with "Steyr, Secaucus NJ stamped on the lower receiver) are top shelf. The high quality is due to the Russian's bringing their machinery/manufacturing into Egypt to make those particular weapons.

That said, they are a bit pricey- when you can actually find them. :?
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

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C-MAC wrote:
GoldCoast wrote:Do your research before you buy one - there is a definite quality difference between makes. I have a shitty Romanian build imported by Century Arms and I am less than impressed with it. I had an Egyptian made AK in Iraq that was awesome. Don't believe the hype. Some are better than others, and they still require maintenance. Different rounds through different barrels yield different results. They're just like any other gun.
I did some additional research. Apparently there is a reason you liked the Egyptian AK so much. AK officiants largely believe that is the best build we American heathens can get our hands on. It appears the ones manufactured by Maadi, especially the ones imported by Steyr in the early 1980's (with "Steyr, Secaucus NJ stamped on the lower receiver) are top shelf. The high quality is due to the Russian's bringing their machinery/manufacturing into Egypt to make those particular weapons.

That said, they are a bit pricey- when you can actually find them. :?
Found mine in an empty shipping container left behind by a previous unit in Iraq. As far as I know it is still kicking around out there somewhere.
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

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Just a note on the AK/M4 topic.

I might suggest that you pick up a copy of Tactical Operator ( published by Shooting Times) which will be displayed on newstands till 8 Mar 2011. Theres a couple articles in this Mag specifically discussing AK and M4 strengths and as well as a direct comparison of the two. They also touch base on the current arguement for finding a new 5.56 or 7.62 military round (According to the Mag. a certain Organization we all know, spent a ton of money designing the 6.8x43SPC round to potentially replace the 5.56 round). Since I found this special edition mag last year I have found it relatively educational. The Edition I have from this time last year was better.

Also it might be worth noting that Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactical ( Just throwing this out there, I do not know if this community is pro or anti Him, All I know is the guy appears to be able to f-ing shoot) is a Contributing author/writer and has a couple topics in the current edition.

For what its worth.

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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by Rock Island Ranger »

I have SKS, AK, and M/4s.

Parabellum came to the ranch 3 weeks ago and spent 3.5 days. We ate and shot. Something like 6000 rds. On weapons, we agreed on most things. Its a functional thing. Its practical. Does the weapon fire when you pick it up? Is it accurate, dependable, reliable, and deadly? The old question of "whats the best gun to have in a gunfight comes to mind?" THE ONE YOU GOT! "Which is better" is a question I dislike to hear because you can't answer it unless you say "for what"? Uhhhh, killing people! Then my answer would be "Yes".

AK: Id pay someone to stand at 400 yards and allow me to shoot at them. Like a Liberal, a politician, welfare rider, ect... If its a decent build and you spend time learning an AK, (really key) its functional, accurate, dependable. It kills people.

M4: If its a decent build and you spend time learning an M4, (really key) its functional, accurate, dependable. It kills people.

The internet forum gun junkies who bloviate about "their opinion" and the rightness of themselves are entertaining but collective idiots most of the time. They have called some of the finest shooters in the world "wrong" on their opinions about weapons because their "technical opinion" is flawed. Forget that these guys have shot millions of rounds through various platforms, used them in combat, seen what the round does to flesh, picked them up and shot them after sand, mud, blood, dirt, ice, and duckbutter were encrusted on them....doesnt matter. The technical guys know best.

Gents, if you spend time with either, learn them, and use them....you will find that both do one thing pretty well. They kill people. Wow, that was pretty technical wasnt it?
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by Flesh Thorn »

Grifter wrote: Also it might be worth noting that Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactical ( Just throwing this out there, I do not know if this community is pro or anti Him, All I know is the guy appears to be able to f-ing shoot) is a Contributing author/writer and has a couple topics in the current edition.
I guess I am pro- Kyle Lamb. I have his book and watch his videos on youtube. Pretty good shit !
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