HK USP vs. SIG P220
-
Rgr_MindRiot
While i have no experience with the HK i do have extensive range time with the P220 (See previous post). Both handguns fire a battle proven round which is practical and controlable. So, it really boils down to two things, personal preference and accuracy (as in controlability). You should keep in mind that in a confrontation the threat is not standing there like a silouette target and therefore you must remember that he who gets the hits on target the fastest wins. This is the point where controlability comes in, anyone can shoot slow, aimed shots but getting a hit on target along with fast follow-up shots is critical in a combat scenerio whether it be in Bagdad or Boston. So, run both guns through their paces. Most likely one will allow you to shoot faster (without sacrificing accuracy) than the other due to the angle of the slide to grip, which is one factor that affects your ability to manage recoil. I love Colt .45s but i can't hit with them as well as my P220 for the reason just mentioned. Did see SP in 9mm version some years ago, it reminded me of Ruger pistols probably because it was designed to have many attachments thus it looked a little bulky. Hope this helped.
-
Creeping Death
- Ranger
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: April 14th, 2003, 10:11 am
Leatherneck:
This may be a little off topic, but you may want to take a look at the Springfield XD series.
I was recently trying to decide between HK and Sig myself. At the time I was shooting a 1911. Then, I started reading articles about this "new" weapon from Springfield Armory. Then I tested one.
It takes down like a Sig, has a grip angle and a grip safety like a 1911, has a trigger safety like a Glock (BUT IT'S A SINGLE ACTION TRIGGER!), and has a polymer frame. After I shot one, I knew I had to have one. Then I saw the price, and my mind was definitely made up.
Mine is in a .40 cal. Since I bought mine, they have came out with a .45 (I think) and a sub-compact model in a 9mm that is the smallest 9mm on the market (even smaller than those junky Kel-Tecs).
Nothing against HK or Sig. I like them both. But if you are used to a 1911, it won't take you long to learn how to shoot this weapon. It may be worth your time to look.
The only down side to mine has been waiting on companies to come out with holsters to fit it. Performance wise, I am more than satisfied. I've stacked different types of loads in it, to try to make it fail to feed. To this point, it hasn't mattered what I've loaded in the mag, or in what order. Not one hiccup yet. That's bone stock. No throat job or anything.
Oh, and it is comfortable to carry concealed as well. Just thought you might want to look at it before you drop $700+ on a HK or Sig. You might like the XD a little better. I did.
This may be a little off topic, but you may want to take a look at the Springfield XD series.
I was recently trying to decide between HK and Sig myself. At the time I was shooting a 1911. Then, I started reading articles about this "new" weapon from Springfield Armory. Then I tested one.
It takes down like a Sig, has a grip angle and a grip safety like a 1911, has a trigger safety like a Glock (BUT IT'S A SINGLE ACTION TRIGGER!), and has a polymer frame. After I shot one, I knew I had to have one. Then I saw the price, and my mind was definitely made up.
Mine is in a .40 cal. Since I bought mine, they have came out with a .45 (I think) and a sub-compact model in a 9mm that is the smallest 9mm on the market (even smaller than those junky Kel-Tecs).
Nothing against HK or Sig. I like them both. But if you are used to a 1911, it won't take you long to learn how to shoot this weapon. It may be worth your time to look.
The only down side to mine has been waiting on companies to come out with holsters to fit it. Performance wise, I am more than satisfied. I've stacked different types of loads in it, to try to make it fail to feed. To this point, it hasn't mattered what I've loaded in the mag, or in what order. Not one hiccup yet. That's bone stock. No throat job or anything.
Oh, and it is comfortable to carry concealed as well. Just thought you might want to look at it before you drop $700+ on a HK or Sig. You might like the XD a little better. I did.
A Co 1/75 '94-'97
Class 5-96
Class 5-96
-
Creeping Death
- Ranger
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: April 14th, 2003, 10:11 am
Leatherneck:
I have the black frame, 5" tactical model, in a .40 cal.
Yeah, you can't get one with a decocker, because it has a single action trigger. It actually has three safeties on it. The first is the grip safety. The slide will not operate unless the grip safety is depressed. The second is the trigger safety, just like a Glock. And the third is an internal drop safety. Keep in mind, this weapon has an internal stricker, not a hammer. When the grip safety and trigger safety is depressed at the same time, it disengages the drop safety, which is basicly a barrier between the stricker and the chamber, allowing the weapon to fire.
My bro has a Ruger P90 with a decocker. I ain't no handgun "expert", but with a decocker, the first round is double action, right? Personally, I'm just not a double action man. I guess I just got used to the 1911.
Anyway, once I understood how all the safeties work on this thing, I had no problem carrying this weapon concealed with one in the pipe. I think this weapon is going to give Glock some problems, so I bought one before the price went sky high.
Let's put it this way. I bought the 5" tactical model, and Uncle Mike's IWB holster, and two boxes of ammo. The total purchase price came to $513.00, and the dealer paid for my background check. I inspected the target that comes with it, where it was test fired at the factory, and it had only been test fired four days earlier, which told me that these things were flying off the shelf. When you look at the cost of Springfield's 1911s, and their rifles, I don't see them leaving this weapon so competetively priced for very long.
Anyway, I like mine. It "fits" me well, which equates to better accuracy. And I'm happy with it's performance. Actually, I'm thinking of buying another one in the sub-compact model, but I'm trying to hold off to see if they will come out with it in .45.
I have the black frame, 5" tactical model, in a .40 cal.
Yeah, you can't get one with a decocker, because it has a single action trigger. It actually has three safeties on it. The first is the grip safety. The slide will not operate unless the grip safety is depressed. The second is the trigger safety, just like a Glock. And the third is an internal drop safety. Keep in mind, this weapon has an internal stricker, not a hammer. When the grip safety and trigger safety is depressed at the same time, it disengages the drop safety, which is basicly a barrier between the stricker and the chamber, allowing the weapon to fire.
My bro has a Ruger P90 with a decocker. I ain't no handgun "expert", but with a decocker, the first round is double action, right? Personally, I'm just not a double action man. I guess I just got used to the 1911.
Anyway, once I understood how all the safeties work on this thing, I had no problem carrying this weapon concealed with one in the pipe. I think this weapon is going to give Glock some problems, so I bought one before the price went sky high.
Let's put it this way. I bought the 5" tactical model, and Uncle Mike's IWB holster, and two boxes of ammo. The total purchase price came to $513.00, and the dealer paid for my background check. I inspected the target that comes with it, where it was test fired at the factory, and it had only been test fired four days earlier, which told me that these things were flying off the shelf. When you look at the cost of Springfield's 1911s, and their rifles, I don't see them leaving this weapon so competetively priced for very long.
Anyway, I like mine. It "fits" me well, which equates to better accuracy. And I'm happy with it's performance. Actually, I'm thinking of buying another one in the sub-compact model, but I'm trying to hold off to see if they will come out with it in .45.
A Co 1/75 '94-'97
Class 5-96
Class 5-96
-
Creeping Death
- Ranger
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: April 14th, 2003, 10:11 am
If I'm right. my bro's P90 with decocker is a single action weapon. BUT, if you engage the decocker, the first round is double action (i.e. longer pull), and the following rounds are single action.
For my purposs, I prefer a single action because I don't want to have to pull my weapon to save my life and have a very long, double action trigger to pull - which would decrease my accuracy. I like that short, light, single action trigger - particularly when my life depends on it.
On the other hand, someone who has more experience around handguns may not have as much problems with a double action. I guess it's all in what you like.
For my purposs, I prefer a single action because I don't want to have to pull my weapon to save my life and have a very long, double action trigger to pull - which would decrease my accuracy. I like that short, light, single action trigger - particularly when my life depends on it.
On the other hand, someone who has more experience around handguns may not have as much problems with a double action. I guess it's all in what you like.
A Co 1/75 '94-'97
Class 5-96
Class 5-96
Although I much prefer double over single action, I've heard many good reports on the Springfield. I just might have to give it a look, too. Can't really beat the price. Anybody know if they're planning to make a cut-down version in .45, like the Colt Officer's model?
RLTW
EP
RLTW
EP
Always remember: BROS BEFORE HOES.
-
MrWesson22
- Soldier
- Posts: 52
- Joined: February 10th, 2003, 1:49 pm
Creeping Death,
To clarify, a traditional double action pistol has the first shot DA (hammer down), but all subsequent shots are SA (hammer back) unless you decide to decock mid magazine. On a double action only, the hammer returns to the down position everytime. If you buy a DA pistol off the shelf, it's not going to be DAO unless you order it that way. I'm a Sig fan personally, but I've never gotten a chance to play with the new Springfield. I'll have to do that.
To clarify, a traditional double action pistol has the first shot DA (hammer down), but all subsequent shots are SA (hammer back) unless you decide to decock mid magazine. On a double action only, the hammer returns to the down position everytime. If you buy a DA pistol off the shelf, it's not going to be DAO unless you order it that way. I'm a Sig fan personally, but I've never gotten a chance to play with the new Springfield. I'll have to do that.
MrW-MrWesson22 wrote:a traditional double action pistol has the first shot DA (hammer down), but all subsequent shots are SA (hammer back)
I know you didn't direct that to me, but that is the type I was referring to. I personally prefer to be able to grab the weapon and instantly pull the trigger, without messing with a bunch of other stuff.
RLTW
EP
Always remember: BROS BEFORE HOES.
-
MrWesson22
- Soldier
- Posts: 52
- Joined: February 10th, 2003, 1:49 pm
I agree. When it comes to the military, I don't know shit, and I've never claimed otherwise, but I do know modern small arms fairly well. The DA system definately has its drawbacks, as any system does (some affectionately refer to them as crunchentickers). It's a bit hard to get used to the transition between the long, relatively heavy first DA trigger pull and the subsequent short, light SA pulls, but it works well. It's like the revolver of autos. Aim, fire. No fuss. It just goes bang. I like em. That said, there's nothing like a semicustom 1911 (wilson combat, les baer, etc). It's all a matter of training and personal preference anyway.
