Fuck the big 3!! I hope they fail

[smokn38]

GM is set to report losses of over 2 billion in the last quarter, and only enough money on hand to make it to the end of the year. I have heard not one thing from the UAW to start concessions to try and save jobs. Better yet Obama just signed on Jenny "I love moose meat and back bacon" Granholm on to become a member of his economic advisory board. The UAW and our foreign governor have led Michigan to the tank. This will be interesting.

[Looon]

Question number 2 ? Who here has turned down a pay raise because they thought it wasn't fair to other hard working people that made less money ?

But if my company was on the verge of failing, I would volunteer for a pay cut if it would mean I could keep my job.

I have lost a damn good job, due to the industry I was in, taking a dump.

Did you get the union to fight for you ?

How? If the industry takes a dump, and you get laid off, there is nothing to fight for.

Ive lost a great union job that way, and another great non-union job.

Ive been on both sides of the fence and it sucks.

[Ranger Bill]

...In Smyrna, Tennessee the UAW has routinely tried to get in and are always told to fuck off by the employees. They feel they are treated well and paid enough that they don't need a union....

This is exactly why there is a bill in congress that will almost assure unionization. The proposed measure will replace a secret ballot vote with a check-off card. The union organizers will know exactly who is voting for or against unionization. The liberals and democracts back this to include Obama, Biden, Pelosi and Reid.

[Gordo173]

Question number 2 ? Who here has turned down a pay raise because they thought it wasn't fair to other hard working people that made less money ?

I have gone without a paycheck at all when the company I worked for was going through tough times to insure the hourly workers got paid, the suppliers got paid and the sales reps got paid. Granted I was middle management, but it was still something of a sacrifice. This probably happened about 3-4 times one year when we were still in our initial growth stage. It worked, company turned the corner, we all started making pretty decent bank.

[Ranger Andy]

O-kay!

[Bravo57]

Because of fees, dues, etc. the biggest winner in a union are the lobbyists and union administrators. And these well-funded lobbyists are busy in DC making sure that they will always exist, kind of like cockroaches.

As well intended as Unions were once, this is too often the case now.

Dude, don't come to Illinois, Lots of big union here. Especially the closer you get to Chi-Town.

[Looon]

The head of the UAW was on Fox.

The extra $25 billion is for paying of benefits only.

[DJB]

Yeah, what do all those thousands of Americans need jobs for anyway.

Not an economically sound argument. Yes there will be job losses but also job creation. The shift will be in the way of increased efficiency. Currently the big 3 are losing entities, they are unable to compete in the current market due to their inefficiencies. A bail out will only encourage more waste and prop up the most inefficient businesses. And valuable resources will further be lost.

Imagine two hot dog stands on either side of a baseball stadium. One is well managed and run efficiency, annual income keeps it in the black, the other sells equally decent hotdogs, but is run inefficiently, and runs in the red annually despite sales equal to the competing hot dog stand. The poorly run hotdog stand goes to the stadium and says you need to bale us out, if you dont jobs will be lost and we wont have hot dogs for this side of the stadium. The stadium owners could do this. But its likely that they would just allow that hotdog stand owner to fail, and allow the other one to open a new stand. If the workers were the cause of the inefficiency, they may not be able to find work at the new stand, but they were the cause of waste so they need to be let go and new employs will be hire to fill those positions (net neutral). If poor management was the cause, then chance are those same employees will be hired right back in to those positions, after all people still want hotdogs.

The economy is dynamic. Jobs are lost every day, but new ones are created in the wake of ever improving efficiency. The market breaks because of government interference. Just as we have seen over the sat month. The same thing happened before the and during the great depression. If you stop listening to what the media keeps feeding you and start looking at reality it doest take long to see that, 1) no deregulation of the free market has taken place, so blaming this on deregulation is socialist bullshit. And 2) Government interference in the market has been a major cause of both this financial crisis as well as proceeding ones.


Hoover who is often sited as a free marketer that allowed for deregulation in the market, was quite the opposite. His policies certainly contributed to the depression but not because the were laisse fare in nature. He establish agricultural protection policies (anti competition policies), encouraged and passed the smoot-Hawley act, extended the authority of the tariff commission, Wage controls and Price controls, "work sharing" policies where companies were asked to decrease their production so that others could compete. Increase in welfare programs, increase in government building projects. A national credit association ($500 billion bank bailout). Created the RFC (Reconstruction Finance Corporation) at national credit lending and second banking bailout program, established home loan discounts, the list goes on (and doesnt it all sound concerningly familiar?). But somehow we have let scheming historians to propagate this idea that the great depression was cause by free market gone wild. Just like today.

[Ranger Bill]

It used to be that one in seven jobs in the US were in or dependent on the auto industry. Today that number is one in ten. If GM and Chrsyler fail, within one year alone it will affect not thousands of jobs but millions - between 2.5 to 3 million and most of those jobs will not be union jobs. The unemployment compensation for them alone, will cost many times more than 25 billion dollars. As for foreign cmpanies picking up the slack, well it won't be much becasue they don't employ many people here and primarily only operate assembly plants. For every job the imports have created in the US, the country, the US manufaturers have lost six jobs, the exchange is not one for one, but an exodus. Soon, the auto industry will go the way of the electronics industry and all ot the other stuff we buy at Wal Mart. Yeah, we'll have cheaper prices, but fewer of us will be able to afford them. This ain't no hot dog stand.

[McD]

I'm guessing some of you young-ins don't remember Lee Iacocca and the governments bail out of Chrysler. The government didn't loan it to them or give it to them but guaranteed the loans.

If they do do something I hope that it is similar to that.

I also heard that there was "Already" a substantial amount of $$$ ear marked for the Big 3 prior to this recent beg for. You will see them get $$$ soon and with out much teeth pulling.

There is nothing new here.

[rgrokelley]

It used to be that one in seven jobs in the US were in or dependent on the auto industry. Today that number is one in ten. If GM and Chrsyler fail, within one year alone it will affect not thousands of jobs but millions - between 2.5 to 3 million and most of those jobs will not be union jobs. The unemployment compensation for them alone, will cost many times more than 25 billion dollars. As for foreign cmpanies picking up the slack, well it won't be much becasue they don't employ many people here and primarily only operate assembly plants. For every job the imports have created in the US, the country, the US manufaturers have lost six jobs, the exchange is not one for one, but an exodus. Soon, the auto industry will go the way of the electronics industry and all ot the other stuff we buy at Wal Mart. Yeah, we'll have cheaper prices, but fewer of us will be able to afford them. This ain't no hot dog stand.

Its amazing how we ever were able to build this nation into a super power status without having government bailouts. Unfortunately, due to a shitty education system (that I work in), most Americans can't figure out that it there was a much better time for business and workers in the United States. First rule, if you want to take over a nation and you don't have the firepower, get rid of their history and replace it with your own version.

So, what would really happen if the Big three come tumbling down? It will suck for a short time, then another business will take its place. A great example of this is the steel industry in Pennsylvania. Remember the song Billy Joel did, lamenting the closing of the steel mills in Allentown? However what happened next is that the folks who were laid off found new jobs, and many found jobs that are better paying, and much safer (and no unions).

What will be destroyed will be the unions choke hold on the American business sector. The reason Congress is doing all they can to bail out the (fill in the blank) industry, is to save the Unions and their never ending supply of union members "donations".

The unions in the United States are similiar to OPEC and rule in the same way.

Thank God I live in a "right to work" state and unions have not taken over here. Ironically businesses continually flow from the northern union dominated states, to the Southern non-union states.

It seems that someone would connect the dots, but there is that whole "shitty education" thing.

[RGR_Dan]

Let them fail, I need the market to crash so I can buy buy buy!

[Steadfast]

I look at it this way, fooking repairs on American Nameplate vehicles.
I had a Ramber Rebel (yeah I know a Canadian car) in the '70's that literally fell apart to the point I could not afford to own a car and didn't get another for like 6 years.

In '82 got a Ford work Van was previously owned by Sears - had a 350 suspension and a 5 Liter engine 502cu in. bought it with 92k miles on it and had it til it had 160k, ran lie a champ but salt on city road was eating away at its structural components - beyond repair even after having work done by a wrought iron place two years before. Brought it to dealer for spot inspection - dealer told me not to use the vehicle above 50mph on hwy, said it weren't safe any more so junked it & don't remember what gas performance was on this vehicle:

I bought a used Delta88 in '87, it was 3 years old & had 37k miles on it.

1st time tranny went was in the 23rd month of my 24 month warranty - lucky me. Living in NYC was no picnic either. Every fooking advertiser carrying a flyer jamming their Advertiserment under my wiper made me learn how to fix them fuckers like 15 times in 17 years. Power Antenna (that more than less wouldn't go down fully) got whipped/ripped off. Every year master window switch on drivers door had to be replaced although no water was coming in - the item kept getting oxidized ($50 each) - Had to replace each 5 year battery every fookin 3rd yr or it was going down somewhere when you least expected it. All the lights eventually died in the dash board twice, had to be replaced $40 for bulbs, $500 to take the dash apart to put in the bulbs.

Fortunately for me after having the car for like 7 years got a mechanic that used to fix race cars - he took out a few of my sensors and my car ran like a champ for 10 years without a tuneup, probably would lasted longer 'cept I junked my American car - NYC exhaust laws became stricter and I now needed a tuneup with those sensors I hadn't used in years. So what if I got 12 miles to the gallon, the car ran dependable and good but could no longer pass an inspection as it was. This car was like driving a tank, I was just about impervious to the millions on the streets of my smoke choked city.

During this period I bought a small Nissan Stanza in '90. Had the car 15 years - aside from brakes and tires I replaced only the generator at a cost of (blew my mind then) $250 in '96. In '05 I junked the car, still ran good but I negelected it, need some work and I didn't want the hassle of smart aleck buyers/callers so took the easy way out. Got 17.5 mpg/city & 32mpg/hwy. But needed Premium or 92 octane rating.

In '04 bought a Honda Element just hit 58+k and have original brakes in rear. Other than oil, tires, air/cabin filters no other expenses, still have original battery too. I am amazed this honda still chugs along dependably. get 17mpg/city 24.5/hwy (do most of my hwy driving on cruise control 95% of time). Uses regular gas.

I think hell will freeze over before I ever buy an American Nameplate again. fuckem, they ain't taking no money out of my pocket!!!