Re: Disrespect

[RTO]

Don't be pussies. Beat your kids.

[cams]

Don't be pussies. Beat your kids.

Yep. If I haven't had to smack my kid in a while, Ill smack him on the way out the door to school just as a reminder that Im here. j/k

Now you're talking!

[smokn38]

When I was a kid if I got out of line I got my ass whooped. PERIOD. And it never made me question whether or not my folks gave a damn about me. It just proved that they did.

Exactly, when I fucked up, if I didnt get the shit knocked out of me, I wondered what was up. When everything came full circle, there was never a doubt my parents did the stuff they did because they had my best interests in mind, and did not want me to be a burden on society.

[AntonA2W]

... aint this the truth!

[RTO]

So, is it a correct assumption that disipline in and of itself breeds respect? Is that all there is too it? Or is there more to it?

I know we had a great thread a few months ago in the back room about disipline and authority at Bn.

I know most of those that have posted are 'Old Skool' and your responses are a result of your upbringings. What I would like to see (if the mod's/admin's/powers that be approve) is for our 18-25 year old DEP's to post their thoughts to this important topic about their generation.

[Ranger Ron]

So, is it a correct assumption that disipline in and of itself breeds respect? Is that all there is too it? Or is there more to it?

I know we had a great thread a few months ago in the back room about disipline and authority at Bn.

I know most of those that have posted are 'Old Skool' and your responses are a result of your upbringings. What I would like to see (if the mod's/admin's/powers that be approve) is for our 18-25 year old DEP's to post their thoughts to this important topic about their generation.

Depends of the core values that the discipline is based on and the manner in which it is administered. Discipline can also not be confused with abuse.

[AntonA2W]

Im "only" 32. Yesterday, I took my 7 yr old to soccer practice. The coach did the best she could to control/teach these little punks. My wife stepped in the try and help, with no avail. These kids were acting like they were at a party. One of them didnt want to take turns. He started yelling and stomping around like a 2 yr old. His mom decides to finally come over. Gets to him and tries to hold his arm. He rips away from her and screams at her!! Keeps pouting. My mom or dad wouldve backhanded me, picked me up by my ankle, dragged me to the car and off to home for a beating. She shrugs her shoulders at us, walks back to her seat. Legally, parents cant "discipline" their kids in public and theres people at their schools that question them about home. Ive rapped mine a few times, when it warranted, but nothing like when I was young. kids today HAVE RIGHTS!!...=). and they know it, using it to their full advantage.

[KW Driver]

There are several points for me to address here.

Prayer in school:

Spirituality does not equate to morality. They can be complimentary, but are not necessary to me. I consider myself a moral person, with high moral standards, but I am not very spiritual, much less Christian or a follower of any mainstream religion.



It’s all about the parent. Period. The keys are establishing and maintaining standards. Consistent enforcement of standards, regardless of inconvenience is the only measure or chance of success. It requires a commitment of time and energy, as the first priority, at all times, of the parent. Period.

Corporal punishment:

I have 11 and 14 year old girls. I have only touched the oldest once. She was three and I swatted her hand away from a red hot burner. She looked at me and her eyes welled up with huge tears that soon rolled. The look she gave me of betrayal and the tone with which se said, "you hit me", just about broke my heart. It was the singularly most painful moment of my life. I sat there and cried in the kitchen, because she didn't understand why I did it. The wife had to console me, then calm my daughter down enough so that she could learn why I had done it.

I have never struck either of my children as punishment. It wasn't necessary. I did spend more time than I can remember enforcing time outs. I had to physically restrain them in the corner, more than once. They were required to spend 1 minute in the corner, for each year of age, in silence, looking into the corner. If they looked out, or spoke, time started over. Sometimes they had to spend in their room alone, until their moods were acceptable. If they were still cranky or pissy, they went back until they were ready to interact reasonably. We also removed their privileges. To the point of there being a bed and a child in a room, for a stated period of time.

It was the enforcement of the standard that mattered. They learned about cause and affect. They learned we ment what we said, and we would do exactly what we said we would, every time, no matter how it inconvenienced us. We would cancel plans to uphold the standard. They learned it. They learned how to interact in society properly because we enforced our standards with them.

It’s a kid’s job to push the limits, to find out just where the line is between acceptable and unacceptable behavior. If they can push parents off the old standard, a new one is created. All this sounds familiar, huh? Everything we ever heard in any leadership school. Because parenting is the hardest, most demanding leadership roll any of us will ever have. If you give a shit.

As soon as my kids got into school, their behavior went to shit. so we tightened them up, reminding them that we didn't give a shit what Johnnie or Sue's parents let them get away with, we loved them, and we demanded our standards of behavior, and that they would grow up to be better people that the other kids who got away with all kinds of shit. That’s the other part of it. They have to know why they are being disciplined.

I got my ass handed to me as a kid. I didn't know I didn't have to hit mine, till my wife showed me it wasn't necessary. But parenting starts the day that child is born. The very first day, you begin instilling standards.

The only real thing I've seen hitting accomplish is to turn the child mean and hard. It teaches the child that violence is an acceptable form of interaction. "I'm hitting you because I love you." think about that. What lesson are you actually imparting with the discipline? Once that child gets hit a few times, they become desensitized to that level of pain. It takes more and more to get the same level of discipline across. I saw this with my neighbor's kid. They beat the shit out of him, routinely, and he became defiant. He was very aggressive, and hit all the kids around us. My wife started babysitting him. He hit our kids. My wife disciplined him our way, and within two days, he was a well mannered, calm, happy kid, with us. He was a hellion outside our yard. His mom asked how we got him to act the way he did at our house, because she couldn't. The wife brought his mom over and taught her how we did things. She broke down, mad and ashamed at herself because beating a kid was all she knew, and it was how she was raised. She loved her kid, but was turning him hard and vicious by beating him. He turned into a really good kid.

It just takes time and energy. And good standards from the parent. Call the Pastor and listen to his son talk on the phone to you.

[KW Driver]

here's another point.

who could beat their Privates? and I mean legally, with command approval smartasses... anyone?

did anybody get a Private up to speed and standard though any other methods? beyond smoking the shit out of them?

what happened to a check bouncer?

all it takes is creativity and an investment of time and energy...

[Ranger Bill]

We are not the first to have this discussion. Here are a few really "old school" thoughts on the youth of today that I found on the internet.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Attributed to Socrates by Plato

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Attributed to Plato

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint"

Hesiod, 8th century BC

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."

Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274

[Nomad]

That was an awesome post, KW!

[RTO]

That was an awesome post, KW!

Ditto. I appreciate you taking the time to pen that well thought out opinion and voice the 'other' side of the coin. Thank you. Disipline a kid with love and standards. What a concept! :D

[KW Driver]

it's really a simple concept. it just also happens to be the hardest thing I've ever done...

anyone ever asks me, what's the greatest thing you've accomplished, my answer has always been, "two things, their names are XXXX and XXXX, and momma had more to do with it then me".

[Towedjmpr]

That was an awesome post, KW!

Ditto. I appreciate you taking the time to pen that well thought out opinion and voice the 'other' side of the coin. Thank you. Disipline a kid with love and standards. What a concept! :D

x2.

Thanks.

[IntelToad]

My son is a great kid, I couldn't ask for anything more. Yesterday, however, I jacked him up over two issues.

#1 He came home with his report card. He had all "A's" and one "B." I asked him about the "B" in math and he ducked the issue. I asked him "what is the standard" and he answered "A." I told him he needed to work on straight "A's" that education was most important, etc. etc.

At his point, I heard the echo of my dad in my ears. :D I also wondered how warped it was that a 7 year old would know what the hell "the standard" mean't. Reflecting on the fact that I was a solid "C" student, I told him how proud I was of him and that he just needed to work a little harder.

#2 He's at hockey practice and playing defense like he loves. All the other kids want to clump up and chase the puck but he patrols the blue line, always skating backwards and he's a foot taller then the other kids his age. Then I notice he's dropping kids from the other team, far away from the play, by jamming his stick in their skates or between their legs. The coaches are focused on the play and he got away with about 12 tripping and hooking penalties by my count. . When he gets off the ice, I grab him by his face mask and tell him to "cut that shit out." Hard stares from the other parents, slight tears from my kid.

Later on the way home he says he thought it was legal, I tell him no more watching NHL playoffs. :D If you're going to hook and trip, make sure the puck is at least within 25' of what you're doing. He was racking up kids at the opposite end of the rink.

My only parenting advice is that kids (especially boys) need sports. And more sports. His classmates are a bunch of lazy asses. :D